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Featured Let’s talk about the Bible

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Vee, Nov 1, 2017.

  1. columbus

    columbus yawn <ignore> yawn

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    I don't think that was the church. It was Paul.
    Which is why Christianity became so Greco-Roman. It isn't based on Jesus, it's based on Paul.
    Or, to be more precise, the teachings of Jesus that the Apostles were safe sharing with Paul. Which is why Christianity has so much Greco-Roman pagan concepts like demi-gods and divine sacrifice/ Resurrection built into it.
    Jesus would never have approved of all that. I am sure He is spinning in His grave over being deified by a Greek.
    Tom
     
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  2. Vee

    Vee Well-Known Member
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    What makes you think that? I never found anything in the Bible that would make me think Paul had anything to do with the doctrine of Trinity.
    From my researches, what I learned was that the introduction of the trinity into the catholic church dates back to the 4th century.
    The New Catholic Encyclopedia says the following “The impression could arise that the Trinitarian dogma is in the last analysis a late 4th-century invention. In a sense, this is true . . . The formulation ‘one God in three Persons’ was not solidly established, certainly not fully assimilated into Christian life and its profession of faith, prior to the end of the 4th century.”
     
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  3. Vee

    Vee Well-Known Member
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    That is not true.
    You are entitled not to like my religion but that doesn't give you the right to make things up.
     
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  4. Gerry

    Gerry Well-Known Member

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    I read it.
    It’s there.
    You have no grasp what is there, and you never will..
    Proverbs 23:9 tells me clearly what happens when I attempt to talk to you specifically, so I will stop.
    Have a nice day.
     
    #44 Gerry, Nov 1, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2017
  5. columbus

    columbus yawn <ignore> yawn

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    How Christian.
    "I can't answer you, so I won't talk to you."
    Tom
     
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  6. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
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    Proverbs 23:9 tells you to engage in arrogant ad hominem attack? Wow - my Hebrew is more rusty than I thought.
     
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  7. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    Neither do I, but we know with certainty that it was the belief of the early church, and it shows up in Paul's writings but as an interpretation.
    The trinitarian concept is not of pagan origin, nor was it ever explained or justified by using pagan sources. It's an interpretation.
     
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  8. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    But when Jesus supposedly said that he and God were one, ... :shrug:
     
  9. Repox

    Repox Truth Seeker

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    You can conclude there are two Bibles. One, the OT, for God's chosen people. The other, the NT, for Anti-Semitic Christians and others who have rewritten Jewish holy books.

    As for the Trinity, it is not found in the Bible, it was made up in support of "son of God" stories.
     
  10. Saint Frankenstein

    Saint Frankenstein Veteran Member
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    Just more religious propaganda short on facts, trying to sell us something. No, thanks.
     
  11. columbus

    columbus yawn <ignore> yawn

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    Which is fundamentally pagan.
    God having children by human mothers is pagan. YHWH and Allah wouldn't ever do that.
    And there is nothing in the Bible suggesting that Jesus thought so either. It's a pagan concept.
    Tom
     
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  12. Vee

    Vee Well-Known Member
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    It is an interpretation but surprisingly, there might be a pagan side to it as well.
    The idea of divine being existing as trinities, or triads, is much older than the church. In ancient Sumeria they believed in the triad of Anu, Enil and Ea. The ancient Babylonians recognized the doctrine of a trinity, or three persons in one god as appears from a composite god with three heads forming part of their mythology, and the use of the equilateral triangle, also, as an emblem of such trinity in unity.
    In the Puranas, an Indian text dating back more than 3000 years we find the triangle of Brahma, Vishnu, and Siva. In Egypt, the Hymn to Amun decreed that ‘No god came into being before him (Amun)’ and that ‘All gods are three: Amun, Re and Ptah, and there is no second to them. In Greece they were Zeus, Poseidon and Adonis. The Phoenicians worshiped Ulomus, Ulosuros and Eliun. Rome worshiped Jupiter, Neptune and Pluto. In Germanic nations they were called Wodan, Thor and Fricco.
    The arrangement of gods or goddesses in trinities is very old and likely influenced the doctrine created by the church more than 100 years after the death of Christ.
     
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  13. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
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    That's uncalled for.
     
  14. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Rival's Wife

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    God wouldn't need them. He already knows who they are. Why is it he commanded that life be destroyed in order that some may be spared his act of slaughtering children? And why did he slaughter innocent children in the first place? It makes no sense that god is powerful enough to do the things he did, but yet time and time again he had no problem spilling blood and taking lives, though in the case of Egypt he could have just as easily have "froze/paralyzed" the Egyptians long enough for the Jews to escape. Or even "blinded" the Egyptians to the Jews escaping. But, instead, he demanded life be taken before his plague of massacring children.
    God consistently takes an approach that we used from the Stone Age and even still today, of taking the easy way out and using violence to resolve his issues. But it never really did much, except for leading to further violence. He never tried to actually address the issue of sin, but instead he got so caught up in his killing rampage that even his own son was killed in the process. How is it that we humans have produced books and studies concluding torture doesn't work to meet the desired ends, yet torture and death is Jehovah's preferred method of doing things?
     
  15. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    Please show us in any of the early church writings whereas they justified this belief in the trinity through "pagan" sources?

    See, this is what your JW teachers dishonestly have taught you, so please go and read on your own what the reality is versus just blindly accepting their nonsense. No CC document of any type that I have ever studied shows any attempt by the CC to justify their belief in this manner. You don't accept the concept of the trinity, neither do I, but it does not have a "pagan" source.

    IOW, please just don't believe what you're being taught to believe just because some leaders tell you to believe them. Do the homework or you'll likely get trapped into a false paradigm sooner or later.
     
  16. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Rival's Wife

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    Perhaps you should read Matthew 5:22, because it says what those who say "thou fool" are in danger of.
     
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  17. BilliardsBall

    BilliardsBall Veteran Member

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    Part of the story includes Roman Catholic translations listing "great English translations of the scriptures" on their front pages--without mentioning how Rome martyred these translators!

    Surely we will hear some eternal stories someday of Bible misuse and Bible suppression. God remains powerful!
     
  18. djhwoodwerks

    djhwoodwerks Well-Known Member

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    Not true? Then why did your leaders find it necessary to rewrite their own Bible?
     
  19. savagewind

    savagewind Veteran Member
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    The concept of the Trinity is in the Bible. Before Jesus God was judge and savior. God does not change. Correct? Who now is judge and savior?
     
  20. savagewind

    savagewind Veteran Member
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    The Bible did not escape the tinkering of men so therefore I can't believe that is has been protected by God.

    Does anyone want to talk about why they believe God protects words but does not protect life?
     
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