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Featured Leprechauns and Spaghetti monsters

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Unveiled Artist, Oct 15, 2020.

  1. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    Do you know leprechauns and spaghetti monsters do not exist?
    If so, how do you know?

    Do you believe there "could" be evidence to convince you there are leprechauns and spaghetti monsters "even if" you believed it is not true (since belief doesn't influence probabilities)?

    I was reading a bunch of fallacies and one of which many atheists (going by RF) quote is comparing existence of god to leprechauns and spaghetti monsters. So, instead of talking about god at all, if the same laws of evidence applies to god as L/S monsters, do you believe they do not exist? Do you know?

    I know christians (well, the abrahamics, I'll say) have many fallacies (Full alphabetic list of Fallacies) that support their beliefs. I don't see atheists (don't take generalizations personally) any different.

    The fallacy here is making a claim something is false (god) by comparing to something ridiculous (monster) that the latter most people assume is false, therefore the former must be false: aka if a monster does not exist, then god does not exist.

    Likewise the other way around, associating something that's, say, beauty to the existence of god: The beauty of the forest exists therefore god exists
     
    #1 Unveiled Artist, Oct 15, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2020
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  2. Tambourine

    Tambourine Radical Felinist

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    Absence of evidence.
     
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  3. ecco

    ecco Veteran Member

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    It seems that you may be trying to set up a strawman. Comparing gods to fairies is just one of many reasons to disbelieve gods.

    Nevertheless, in many regards, the comparison is valid.
     
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  4. PureX

    PureX Veteran Member

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    They ALL "exist". The question is: in what manner, and to what end. Once we grow up and learn to articulate our questions, we can begin to honestly debate with others to find some reasonable answers.
     
    #4 PureX, Oct 15, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2020
  5. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    Do you believe they don't exist because of absence of evidence only? In other words, is there a probability they could exist no matter how slim it may be?
     
  6. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    How does that work, though?

    Do you believe fairies could exist or do you know they do they not?
     
  7. Tambourine

    Tambourine Radical Felinist

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    Of course they could.
    But I see no practical point in assuming the existence of something that is neither directly nor circumstantially in evidence.
     
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  8. The Hammer

    The Hammer Virtue, Piety, Study
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    My issue here is likening the Gods to something that is physically contained within the Universe, such as a leprechaun or monster; when in reality the gods exist outside of, and encompassing all of our universe.
     
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  9. Tambourine

    Tambourine Radical Felinist

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    Au contraire, nothing exists - fortunately, because if things existed, then they couldn't be.
     
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  10. QuestioningMind

    QuestioningMind Well-Known Member

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    Do you know leprechauns and spaghetti monsters do not exist?
    If so, how do you know?


    I don't KNOW that they do not exist, I simply don't have sufficient evidence to warrant belief that they DO exist. The exact same holds true for the fantastical claim that there is a some creator god being.

    There is no fallacy in comparing one fantastical claim for which there is no verifiable evidence with another fantastical claim for which there is no verifiable evidence. The question becomes: If you don't accept fantastical claim A because there is no verifiable evidence, why do you accept fantastical claim B, for which there is also no verifiable evidence?
     
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  11. MonkeyFire

    MonkeyFire Well-Known Member

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    A spaghetti monster isnt part of nature, like God.
     
  12. Tambourine

    Tambourine Radical Felinist

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    In the most common Abrahamic conceptions of them, God isn't part of nature, either.
     
  13. Stevicus

    Stevicus Veteran Member
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    I think my position is that we don't know what, exactly, "exists" outside of our limited realm of understanding and knowledge in our own little corner of the cosmos.
     
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  14. MNoBody

    MNoBody Well-Known Member

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    knowledge is considered to be as infinite as the universe it describes
    man is well known to be a finite creature, [universally accepted idea]
    finite in knowledge
    which simply implies that no man knows everything
    which extended further would suggest that regardless of how detailed the clarity one assumes they have at any given moment, it should be assumed it is incomplete and imperfectly known [which would suggest that an open-minded "stance/mind-set" in forming suppositions and ideas would be more productive/useful ]
    cartographers of "reality" are merely map-makers, and serviceable maps, while excellent tools are still only working titles so to speak since they can be revised or remade due to new information coming to light [history shows us, this happens constantly]

    so do such "things" exist?
    Maybe, in some sense.
     
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  15. MonkeyFire

    MonkeyFire Well-Known Member

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    Care to share the verses?
     
  16. Jainarayan

    Jainarayan ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
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    Is not evidence of absence.
     
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  17. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    Why would there be a probability that they could?
     
  18. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    Since god isn't defined, the only way I can define it per this OP is something that isn't detectable to the five senses. Like L/S, god in this sense all three cannot be detected. There is a lot written about them, though. Of what people think what they look like, do, how, and their position in the universe, etc. So, they have that in common.

    Though, I can't see how comparing the two disproves one is much more different than the other. That fallacy doesn't seem to ad up, no?
     
  19. bobhikes

    bobhikes Nowoligist
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    You do realize that at one time Leprechauns were once apart of the Celtic Religion and there God structure. All the myths Greek, Roman, Norse, Asian were all practiced Religions, their Gods the only true Gods. Christianity came much later and some of the biblical stories are retellings of those ancient myths with new names.
     
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  20. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    How do you compare the two?

    One can't invalidate the other if both are in the same category. Do you think that L/S "could" exist? Is there a probability that they could? (Having no evidence doesn't prove L/S don't exist. We, humans, just don't have the ability to figure that out-right?)
     
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