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legitimate or?
- Thread starter syo
- Start date
syo
Well-Known Member
They agree with the church. and questioning religion and Jesus is a taboo.
Regiomontanus
Ματαιοδοξία ματαιοδοξιών! Όλα είναι ματαιοδοξία.
Hello. That is an interesting thing to say, considering Jesus and the first generation of Christians were all Jews. Paul was a Pharisee...
Peace
syo
Well-Known Member
Of course. but it's still a taboo.
Questioning christianity is a taboo. Orthodox who question their religion keep it private.
Even by other Christians when the Romans took it over. This form of Christianity enforced by a government was more a way of giving people a religion, which many seem to need and a way to control them, make them behave, at the same time.
Other ideas, views on Christianity were forced out. Why did Christianity become popular in the Roman Empire? Maybe because it took God out of the hands of the Priests and put it into the hands of common folks. Before if you were poor, sick, maimed, it was because the Gods found you unworthy. Christianity made everyone worthy, gave everyone hope if they were "good" they would be rewarded in the afterlife, if not in this life for their goodness. Popular with the masses. Kind of a grassroots movement. Instead of continuing to fight a popular movement, the Roman Empire decided to take ownership of it. Dictate what Christianity was all about.
syo
Well-Known Member
Nah, it's taboo because christians do not want to hear the opposing view.
Really just my opinion from reading the OT and having some things pointed out to me by some Jewish folks. Honestly there's no reason to think Jesus was the Messiah in the OT, even though Mathew takes great pains to make a connection. One really has to twist some of the meaning of the old testament to make Jesus fit. Maybe Jesus was a Jew, but Paul decided to make a God out of him then bring gentiles into the fold. I found when I talk to Christianity about Christianity, mostly they refer me to something Paul wrote. So Paul ends up being the authority for many Christians, more so than Jesus.
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
From who I am around, a lot of it is, if 97% think its true, then it must be true. The 2% are blind and chose not to believe and 1% have an excuse only if they haven't heard the word before. There is a lot of social network support through history, every other church, and depending on area, law, and custom if one considers christianity not of value, is saying history is a value of lies.
Anything can be made worth value. If it helps you with your spiritual life, why would 97% of us need to say otherwise?
GoodbyeDave
Well-Known Member
The New Testament texts that are accepted as legitimate by non-Christian scholars are Mark's Gospel and most of Paul's Letters. Neither mentions the incarnation or the virgin birth. The first non-Christian to mention Christianity was Josephus, who said that they believe Jesus to be the promised messiah — just as Peter said in Mark. The conclusion is that the first couple of generations of Christians were a Jewish sect: all the distinctive beliefs in the creed came later.
But that doesn't make it a cult, in the common usage. [In religious studies the term "cult" means something different and harmless, but the sociologists who gave the word its popular meaning were obviously ignorant of that!] Here's a good cult test:
The Advanced Bonewits' Cult Danger Evaluation Frame
When the atheists on the forum ridicule people's religions, that's proselytising for atheism — and the staff members immediately enforce rule 8, as everybody knows.
VoidCat
Pronouns: he/him/they/them
We do sometimes and not immediately. Having this interspecies forum depends on politeness and not saying exactly what we think at all times. That's life. If everybody could say what we wanted on here we'd have trouble keeping people coming I think. It would just become a garbage dump. Even reddit requires moderation, but that place is a dump half the time. Its a huge un-navigable mess, like a hand that has turned into a plate of spaghetti. The other extreme is the exchange which is all like "Shut up if you don't already know everything. Somebody already asked that question, dumbo." Aka too much moderation, but if we didn't moderate the scholars would leave and anybody with any real religious experience would be busy fending off missionary attempts and junk comments. The way we have it is currently the best I know of for allowing the different groups to talk. All it takes is not saying the worst possible thing. "Is your religion dragon poop or does it come from turtles?"
Regiomontanus
Ματαιοδοξία ματαιοδοξιών! Όλα είναι ματαιοδοξία.
Hello. It is certainly the case that most Jews back then thought the Good News was nutty (to put it mildly - consider how the 'pre-Damascus' Paul acted!). My point is just that there was no one Judaism (Pharisees, Essenes, Sadducees, etc.) so, IMHO, the first Christians were really just another Jewish sect. And consider that James, the brother of Jesus, seems to have remained very respected in Jerusalem, attending temple, right up until the destruction in 70 AD (and was the real power broker, if you will, among the early Christians as we read in Acts).
Peace
Sure, but it is not the Christianity we have today. I don't think we have a legitimate connection to those first "Christians". My ancestors were pagan so historically I've no real connection to these Jewish "Christians". So I don't see the Christianity I was taught as legitimate.
Hotcakes78
New Member
I would say Christianity has little value for a few reasons. Firstly churches seem to take much more than they give. They pass collection plates at each and every mass, they use the mail for donations, the internet, TV, radio etc. Beyond that they get huge tax breaks and are often tax exempt. This produces plenty of money and what do churches do with that money? They build statues, buy luxury cars for priests, expand the structures of their churches as an excuse to ask for more donations. I could go on and on but it's clear that the Catholic church's primary obligation is to itself.
Regiomontanus
Ματαιοδοξία ματαιοδοξιών! Όλα είναι ματαιοδοξία.
Hello. We certainly agree on that point! It has been changed beyond recognition, IMHO.
Peace
InChrist
Free4ever
I don't think Christianity is legitimate as a religion, meaning simply doing certain practices, rituals, or lists of do's and don'ts. But as a relationship with the Creator of heaven and earth, who made each person to be in relationship with Himself, I believe there is nothing more valuable. Trusting and relating to the living Savior Jesus Christ is so different than a religious practice.The first Jews/Christians who loved Jesus and lived their lives in relationship with Him were not very popular and it is still the same.
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