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Led by God?? Really??

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by idea, Jun 29, 2019.

  1. idea

    idea Well-Known Member

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    Nightline - ABC, last night:

    Video: Prominent LDS mom recommended babysitter who preyed on church children: Part 1

    Video: Former Latter-day Saints member was convicted of sexual abuse of minors: Part 2

    I know the Mormon church is not the only ones with abuse scandals - how is everyone else handling it? Fallen leaders nullify the claims of the religious organization, no?

    And.... in other news...

    Hundreds suffer from heat exhaustion during youth Pioneer Trek activity

    ↑ the original trek was a disaster - people were unprepared, many died (we will never know the actual death count) - not inspired, not protected - one of the worst disasters in American history.... and yet some are still "celebrating" it as some inspired journey??? and still - leaders are not protecting kids, people are still left without supplies in trouble - yea... really inspired...

    I know the Mormons are not the only religious group who claims to be "led by God" - just wondering how religious people justify being "guided by the Spirit" etc. etc. with stuff like this?

    If something goes wrong it is a "trial of faith" if anything happens to go right it is " blessings from God"...



    Just wondering how some can justify the claim "the church is led by God" in light of things like this...
     
  2. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity Veteran Member
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    I recommend doing this in the 'Same faith debates' area and specifying you want to debate LDS members.
     
  3. Valjean

    Valjean Veteran Member
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    Wouldn't that tend to discourage disinterested insights from those with no dog in the race?
     
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  4. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity Veteran Member
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    They are called 'Comments from The Peanut Gallery'. I'm not sure why. Maybe the phrase is an allusion to the Peanuts comic, or it could be older. It may go back as early as the earliest peanut farmers.
     
  5. Rival

    Rival Unicorn Noahide
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    The upper, cheapest seats in theatres, called peanut galleries. Known for hecklers.
     
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  6. Nowhere Man

    Nowhere Man Bompu Zen Man with a little bit of Bushido.

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    They don't realize that God is a puppet of their own making. One that takes over mentally , and as a consequence , leads to things like this.

    It's like a ventriloquist who lost himself in his puppet and believes it's real and alive.
     
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  7. Nowhere Man

    Nowhere Man Bompu Zen Man with a little bit of Bushido.

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    Ahh....

     
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  8. Epic Beard Man

    Epic Beard Man Bearded Philosopher

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    The same way they are guided by other atrocities against human beings. Some condition themselves to justify their perversion.
     
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  9. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity Veteran Member
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    Ah! Its because they're so cheap that they can only afford to throw peanuts rather than the more stinky vegetables.
     
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  10. idea

    idea Well-Known Member

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    This goes for more than just the LDSers, most religious groups believe they are the "chosen true" religious group, favored and led by God and all that, no?

    I would like to hold onto some spiritual beliefs, would be fun to be in a group - but somehow, whenever there is a leader to any group - the organization kind of kills everything... :(

    Is it possible to be part of a group without feeling the need to conform in any way to said group?
     
  11. PureX

    PureX Veteran Member

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    People recognize that they are sometimes inspired and motivated by a divine spirit within themselves. And this may well be so. But unfortunately, such inspiration often does not come to us accompanied by an instruction manual. So we have to figure out how and when to act on this inspiration, effectively. And we humans being human, we often get this part wrong.

    I don;t think this means we should reject the idea of divine inspiration. Or that we should stop trying to follow through on it. But I do think that we need always to remember that although the inspiration may be divine, the human receiving it, and carrying it out, is not. And so may very well be getting it all quite wrong. It's when we forget this that those disasters happen.
     
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  12. stvdv

    stvdv Well-Known Member

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    Yes, that is possible IMO. When the group does not claim to be "the only highway", and that the spiritual path is a unique and personal endeavor
     
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  13. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity Veteran Member
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    Yes with caveats. #1 Only go for groups that have the same income level or lower. Never try to fit in with people who do things that you can't afford and especially don't spend what they spend. If they eat out constantly and you can't, then that group isn't for you. #2 Fly on the wall. The secret to fitting in is to be approachable. Don't say too much about yourself, and don't let people tell you everything about themselves too quickly. If someone is breaking this rule give yourself some space. #3 Read about social groups, charismatic techniques, body language, handling situations. Everyone needs work in this area. #4 You are part of the group only if you are of potential benefit to the group, however do small favors for the group not big ones. #5 Commitment is fraud. If you have to commit in order to be in the group, then there are unknown costs in store 99.999% of the time.
     
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  14. Katzpur

    Katzpur Not your average Mormon

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    My sig says it all. I love my "tribe" but refuse to be overwhelmed by it. Sometimes it's hard.

    That said, I don't know why you'd even want to be part of a group if you didn't want to conform to some extent with the group.
     
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  15. danieldemol

    danieldemol Well-Known Member
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    I don’t know if liberalism does groups, but there is no orthodoxy in liberalism, and it need not have leaders
     
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  16. idea

    idea Well-Known Member

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    Some groups are organized in a hierarchical structure with leaders and followers - which tends to be highly demanding for "followers" or members of the group to adhere.

    Other groups are organized based on a location rather than a person (people who like "America" or some other country - could have different political or religious beliefs, but perhaps growing up in the same location is what connects.

    Some are organized around a task to be completed (work), around love for a particular music group, or drinking beverage - rather than a person.

    Some groups form over a health condition, or unite those of the same age...

    In any group I think those who try to fit in - who conform, who talk/dress/act in conforming ways - while in a group, feel isolated and alone because they are not allowed to share their true selves and so remain disconnected, unheard, unappreciated. It is only through authenticity, the acceptance of diversity, a shame-free environment here all voices are valued and participants are free to dress/act/say how they feel where the group does its job in connecting people and erasing the feeling of being alone or isolated.

    The extend to which participants are free to be authentic is the extent to which isolation and connectedness are evident within a group.

    Not "mean" honesty of course - "I just being honest..." - not judgmental honesty - but I statements, I feel this etc. etc.
     
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  17. idea

    idea Well-Known Member

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    For any group it can be so hard to find an activity that fits everyone's needs - health needs (some enjoy biking hiking, others cannot walk), age needs (people with little kids, people with teenagers, etc.), economic needs (that no one feels uncomfortable in what they are able to contribute). I would add - really listen to others in the group, validate their feelings, look for the good in others - make it real (no fake compliments, real compliments). Silence is fine too, laughter is so good for the soul.
     
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