Law of Reversed Effort

[Straw Dog]

The law of reversed effort, or backwards law, is the paradoxical notion that trying too hard to make everything just right is a major aspect of what's actually wrong. The struggle to always feel secure and seek happiness only results in more feelings of insecurity and unhappiness. As countercultural philosopher Alan Watts put it, "When you try to stay on the surface of the water, you sink; but when you try to sink, you float."

Do you agree with this principle?
In what ways does it work?
In what ways is it limited?
What are some examples from daily life?

 

[DawudTalut]

I think the laws means remain balanced, overdoing is no good, keep eyes mind and heart open for security.

I would add to law, "then trust God".

 

[Straw Dog]

I think the laws means remain balanced, overdoing is no good, keep eyes mind and heart open for security."

Yes it doesn't necessarily imply we should be contrary at all costs. It is principle of moderation. If we try to control everything then we won't be able to control anything, even ourselves. The harder we attempt to consciously do something, the less we shall exceed. It is similar to the Taoist principle of wei wu wei, or action through non-action, which is about energy efficiency and going with the flow in a spontaneous, uncontrived way.

Some possible examples:

Gripping a wrench too fast or too tightly and then not being able to use it well.

Losing our keys and not being able to locate them until we stop looking so hard or otherwise temporarily focus on something else, then we just happen to come across them or remember where they were.

Desperately seeking the perfect romantic partner only to end up in a series of bad relationships. Then, after giving up or focusing on another life project, we just happen to meet the right person and the chemistry naturally unfolds without needing to force anything.

If we always ask ourselves whether we are happy we may tend to find that we are not because of asking the question in the first place. We sabotage ourselves because the mind will search for a reason not to be happy or otherwise invent a new problem. Perhaps asking "How can I be happy?" is the wrong question.

I would add to law, "then trust God".

I can dig it.

Personally, I'd probably add, "then follow nature".

 

[Kuzcotopia]

Here's a super simple single page overview of Nicomachean Ethics.

About Aristotle's Ethics

I'll quote point three here:

Moral virtue is a relative mean between extremes of excess and deficiency, and in general the moral life is one of moderation in all things except virtue. No human appetite or desire is bad if it is controlled by reason according to a moral principle. Moral virtue is acquired by a combination of knowledge, habituation, and self-discipline.

 

[Straw Dog]

Moral virtue is a relative mean between extremes of excess and deficiency, and in general the moral life is one of moderation in all things except virtue. No human appetite or desire is bad if it is controlled by reason according to a moral principle. Moral virtue is acquired by a combination of knowledge, habituation, and self-discipline.

Is virtue really the only exception?

"Virtue itself turns to vice, being misapplied,
and vice sometime by action dignified." -Friar Lawrence
(Romero & Juliet, lines 21-22, act 2, scene 3)

 

[LuisDantas]

The law of reversed effort, or backwards law, is the paradoxical notion that trying too hard to make everything just right is a major aspect of what's actually wrong. The struggle to always feel secure and seek happiness only results in more feelings of insecurity and unhappiness. As countercultural philosopher Alan Watts put it, "When you try to stay on the surface of the water, you sink; but when you try to sink, you float."

Do you agree with this principle?
In what ways does it work?
In what ways is it limited?
What are some examples from daily life?

There is an interesting idea in there, but I would develop it a bit more and perhaps express it in another way.

(BTW, it is a very Taoistic idea)

Personally, I think it is often more clear to express that idea in terms of the practical need for acceptance of our actual limits and the rational analysis of the consequences.

Or, in some contexts, it may be expressed in terms of courage, or of dissolving illusions.

 

[Kuzcotopia]

Is virtue really the only exception?

"Virtue itself turns to vice, being misapplied,
and vice sometime by action dignified." -Friar Lawrence
(Romero & Juliet, lines 21-22, act 2, scene 3)

I was thinking in terms of the moderation from what I remembered about the philosophy, but I didn't quite notice that in the summary!

The good friar may be talking about "doin' it", BTW.

 

[Straw Dog]

I was thinking in terms of the moderation from what I remembered about the philosophy, but I didn't quite notice that in the summary!

I'll have to study Aristotle a bit more.

The good friar may be talking about "doin' it", BTW.

Oh, right. Well, he didn't seem to be a rigid moralist at any rate.

It can mean too much of any good thing may turn into a bad thing. It may have been foreshadowing in the story as well. Love can turn into a suicidal obsession as in the case of Romero and Juliet. I was using it as an example to demonstrate moral skepticism, but maybe Aristotle's ethics account for it.

 

[Straw Dog]

There is an interesting idea in there, but I would develop it a bit more and perhaps express it in another way.

(BTW, it is a very Taoistic idea)

Personally, I think it is often more clear to express that idea in terms of the practical need for acceptance of our actual limits and the rational analysis of the consequences.

Or, in some contexts, it may be expressed in terms of courage, or of dissolving illusions.

Yes, it can be developed or expanded in other directions. Practical acceptance doesn't entail resignation. In many ways, we work more efficiently by knowing our limits within a given context. However, some limits may also need to be tested periodically in new ways because we can never be totally certain that we are not capable of going beyond that which has become conventionally accepted. There may also be limitations to rational analysis such as the law of unintended consequences, or the notion that 'we can never change only one variable'. There's always a ripple effect.

 

[Banjankri]

The law of reversed effort, or backwards law, is the paradoxical notion that trying too hard to make everything just right is a major aspect of what's actually wrong. The struggle to always feel secure and seek happiness only results in more feelings of insecurity and unhappiness. As countercultural philosopher Alan Watts put it, "When you try to stay on the surface of the water, you sink; but when you try to sink, you float."

Do you agree with this principle?
In what ways does it work?
In what ways is it limited?
What are some examples from daily life?

This is how I see it. Effort is inseparable from expectation, and reversed effort is nothing but lack of expectations at the end. What is expectation? The answer is hidden in the root of the word. It comes from Latin expectatio, which means "anticipation, an awaiting". When one anticipates something, he cuts himself from present reality, but only in the present moment true opportunities show up.
To sum it up, effort is just the cost of action, while expectation is its direction. It appears that it is more efficient to use this energy for opportunities in the present moment, then to discard them while chasing after imagined goals.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

What are some examples from daily life?

I think it's generally true that sometimes we try too hard when it would be better to relax into the experience and be more natural.