LATTER DAY: Nod to anarchy

[Bishka]

William Van Wagenen is too modest to compare himself to the famed activist and journalist Dorothy Day, who launched the Catholic worker movement in the 1930s. But his ambitions are no less audacious.

Just as Day did for Catholics, Van Wagenen would like to awaken Mormons to the "virtually forgotten radical elements" of their doctrine and history - namely, the mandate to "have no poor among you."

To that end, the 29-year-old Salt Lake City stockbroker and several friends have just published the first edition of The Mormon Worker, a bimonthly newspaper devoted to "promoting Mormonism, anarchism and pacifism."

The editors, all active members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, will not criticize the LDS hierarchy or institution but plan to provide "radical religious commentary on current political and economic events."

Those behind The Mormon Worker are among a small, but growing number of Latter-day Saints bucking the stereotype of church members as Republican, hawkish on the war and devoted to capitalism.

Mormons for Equality and Social Justice (MESJ), for example, is made up of Latter-day Saints who are "anxiously engaged" in "furthering the cause of Zion by working for the gospel values of peace, equality, justice and wise stewardship of the Earth in a spirit of Christlike charity and concern."

Link here

Interesting, what do you think?

Link to : The Mormon Worker

Yay or Nay?

 

[Comprehend]

Link here

Interesting, what do you think?

Link to : The Mormon Worker

Yay or Nay?

I think their heart is in the right place but they either do not understand LDS doctrine or are going against it as far as the anarchy goes. They claim that "every mormon should look forward to the abolition of government."

This isn't the case at all, we should be looking forward to a very organized government of Jesus Christ. In the mean time, we should be working towards creating as much of a duplicate of it as we can.

 

[silvermoon383]

I've been following this on MADB (FAIR's new message board) and can do nothing but shake my head. I wouldn't be surprised to hear of a disciplinary council in that person's future.

 

[Aqualung]

A man after my own heart. Imma get me one of those mormon worker shirts once they come out.

 

[Bishka]

I've been following this on MADB (FAIR's new message board) and can do nothing but shake my head. I wouldn't be surprised to hear of a disciplinary council in that person's future.

I'm curious to think why you think that they would need a disciplinary council?!?

 

[silvermoon383]

They're publicly advocating a position that is contrary to scripture and attempting to persuade other members to accept their views. If they continue that's apostacy.

 

[FFH]

Link here

Interesting, what do you think?

Link to : The Mormon Worker

Yay or Nay?

Socialism is a forced false Zionism, a counterfeit United Order.

Socialism ~ Satan's plan (forced)
United Order/Zionism ~ God's plan (voluntary)

I avoid reading the Tribune as much as possible, otherwise...

 

[FFH]

They're publicly advocating a position that is contrary to scripture and attempting to persuade other members to accept their views. If they continue that's apostacy.

Exactly...

 

[FFH]

I think their heart is in the right place but they either do not understand LDS doctrine or are going against it as far as the anarchy goes. They claim that "every mormon should look forward to the abolition of government."

This isn't the case at all, we should be looking forward to a very organized government of Jesus Christ. In the mean time, we should be working towards creating as much of a duplicate of it as we can.

Wow, good post !

 

[madhatter85]

I thinkt hat every latter-day saint does look forward to when Christ come's and takes over the government of the world. but promoting anarchy is a different thing.

Sounds to me like Book of Mormon Stories.....This is what happens when Satan grasps hold of the hearts of good LDS people, they become even more wicked than people who never accepted the gospel.

 

[Aqualung]

They're publicly advocating a position that is contrary to scripture and attempting to persuade other members to accept their views. If they continue that's apostacy.

What are they advocating that is contrary to scripture? I only gave it a cursory reading.

Socialism is a forced false Zionism, a counterfeit United Order.

Socialism ~ Satan's plan (forced)
United Order/Zionism ~ God's plan (voluntary)

I avoid reading the Tribune as much as possible, otherwise...

Anarchy, though, precludes the possiblity of force. Forced socialism is governmental. Voluntary socialism is the united order.

 

[silvermoon383]

D&c 134

 

[Comprehend]

What are they advocating that is contrary to scripture? I only gave it a cursory reading.

The abolition of all government.

Anarchy, though, precludes the possiblity of force. Forced socialism is governmental.

No it doesn't, it just makes the force more local. Instead of government employee's using force it's the tough guy down the street.

Voluntary socialism is the united order.

The United Order, as the name suggests, will be ordered, organized and yes, a government.

Seeking the abolition of all government would go against building up the kingdom of God and it certainly isn't the United Order.

 

[Aqualung]

Wow, people, a little more explanation would be nice.

D&c 134

And? I see D&C 134 supporting that idea. It says that governments should only be upheald if they are righteous, and there has never been (IMO) a righteous government. Governments, it says, should preserve freedom and religion, and no government that I've ever read about has done that. And, if the government ISN'T doing that, is there anything that says we need to perpetuate it? In fact, it says that men are only supposed to uphold their government if they are being protected in their unalienable rights. Since "unalienable rights" isn't specified, it must be one of those personal, spirit-of-the-law thingies that we're so careful to leave to individual consciense. What sayest thou? (really, I'm interested in knowing. The overlap of politics and religion is an area in which I'm certainly the minority, and it might very wlel be because I'm wrong, and if I am it would be good to know.)

The abolition of all government.

Well, it would be nice if you could tell me how the abolition of government contradicts scripture. Like with references and suchlike.

No it doesn't, it just makes the force more local. Instead of government employee's using force it's the tough guy down the street.

Yeah, true. That's certainly a possibility to poorly created anarchy, yes. but the fact is, if something is voluntary, it is not perscribed by law. If it's not prescribed by law, it exists in an anarchist sphere (even if everything else doesn't necessarily exist in that anarchist sphere).

The United Order, as the name suggests, will be ordered, organized and yes, a government.

It won't be a government. It will be a voluntary collusion of individuals. There is a difference. Hierarchy does not a government make.

Seeking the abolition of all government would go against building up the kingdom of God and it certainly isn't the United Order.

Perhaps you could inform me about the united order a bit more then and how worldly governments are necessary in the sustenance of a united order.

 

[nutshell]

How do they reconcile the article of faith about being subject to government???

 

[Comprehend]

Wow, people, a little more explanation would be nice.

Well, it would be nice if you could tell me how the abolition of government contradicts scripture. Like with references and suchlike.

Yeah, true. That's certainly a possibility to poorly created anarchy, yes. but the fact is, if something is voluntary, it is not perscribed by law. If it's not prescribed by law, it exists in an anarchist sphere (even if everything else doesn't necessarily exist in that anarchist sphere).


It won't be a government. It will be a voluntary collusion of individuals. There is a difference. Hierarchy does not a government make.



Perhaps you could inform me about the united order a bit more then and how worldly governments are necessary in the sustenance of a united order.

Sorry, I just expect mormons know this stuff.

Homework:

* Daniel ch. 7
* D&C ch. 42
* Articles of Faith #10

* Consecration, Law of., Kingdom of God, - Encyclopedia of Mormonism entries. (including all scriptures listed)

* Priesthood and Church Government. - John A. Widstoe (chapters 14-16).

* Joseph Smith and World Government. - Hyrum L. Andrus (you can start at p.45 if you want).


That should get you started.

 

[Aqualung]

Sorry, I just expect mormons know this stuff.

Yeah, that can happen. It might help to remember when you're getting all impatient with me that I'm a fairly recent convert.

Homework:

* Daniel ch. 7
* D&C ch. 42
* Articles of Faith #10

* Consecration, Law of., Kingdom of God, - Encyclopedia of Mormonism entries. (including all scriptures listed)

* Priesthood and Church Government. - John A. Widstoe (chapters 14-16).

* Joseph Smith and World Government. - Hyrum L. Andrus (you can start at p.45 if you want).


That should get you started.

You'll notice Daniel 7 says that governments will be overthrown. D&C 42 says nothing about a government forcing the people to do anything. And the tenth article of faith has nothing to do with governments of this time. Is the article in question that becky posted against even Christ's governments or is it against the oppressive, anti-D&C-134 governments that are on earth today?

 

[Aqualung]

How do they reconcile the article of faith about being subject to government???

It doesn't apply if there is no government in the first place. Plus, I think that article needs to be read in light of D&C 134.

 

[Comprehend]

Yeah, that can happen. It might help to remember when you're getting all impatient with me that I'm a fairly recent convert.

I didn't know that.

You'll notice Daniel 7 says that governments will be overthrown.

yes... and some will be. It also says that in the D&C.

D&C 42 says nothing about a government forcing the people to do anything.

I'm not sure what your point is.

And the tenth article of faith has nothing to do with governments of this time. Is the article in question that becky posted against even Christ's governments or is it against the oppressive, anti-D&C-134 governments that are on earth today?

Aren't we discussing the nature of the united order and the law of consecration? You argued that the united order wouldn't have a government, I am trying to show you that there will be.

See post #2.

 

[DavyCrocket2003]

I don't see what's so bad about a government. Sure ours isn't perfect, but I highly prefer it to most of the other options. I don't know a lot about anarchy, but to me it seems like today's society couldn't handle it. There are just too many different groups seeking their own agenda. I don't think anarchy would be very stable.

I think our government does uphold freedom and religion. I believe that most of the problems with our government we have ourselves to thank for. Anyway, what do I know? I could be totally wrong.