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Laissez Faire Capitalism props up materialism

Discussion in 'General Debates' started by atanu, Sep 25, 2019.

  1. atanu

    atanu Member
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    It augurs well for capitalists to push for material solution for any and all ills of humans. You have headache? Pop a pill. You have the blues? Pop a pill. You have cancer? Okay. Spend like hell and get cured. Buy. Buy. Buy. My wife is suffering from cancer. She has undergone six cycles of chemo and will undergo further maintenance chemo treatments for two years. My one question is, "Why chemo medicines are so costly?" When this disease is so widespread, what stops the medicines to be sold cheap? Are the production costs so high?

    In my view, it is a corollary that economic powers that be, are overly committed to a materialistic world view not because they are convinced but because it suits their purpose. Who should be bothered that Yoga and meditation can solve most of human ills at the root? Who will be interested to promote pranayama or even homeopathy? Who will be interested in teaching a relaxation regime such as 'Yoga Nidra' such as linked below?

    ‎Deep Relaxation and Guided Meditation - Yoga Nidra on Apple Podcasts

    Returning to my wife's case. She has had extreme bouts of breathless-ness and burning all through her body during the chemo treatments. After the third chemo, as a last resort (like the drowning clutch at straw), I from my limited knowledge of homeopathy, gave her doses of Carbo veg followed by Arsenic album. These two worked like magic. She became much more restful and had no bouts of breathlessness and burning thereafter. I share this here hoping that some may be benefitted from my experience.

    I have a personal experience of relief from my proctitis with two doses of Sulfur ands Nux Vom each. Prior to this, I had used Betnovate for five years, without any permanent relief from the condition and any relief from the agonising intense pain that I suffered everyday. At 30 year age, I used to feel that there was no point in living. But homeopathy removed the problem in two days.

    So, I think that those who demonise homeopathy are parroting what they have read and have no personal experience. These same set of people have no experience of how mind can control physical aspects of brain through pranayama, meditation, mindfulness etc. Most of these people who parrot what they have read are the victims of propaganda. They will not change unless they themselves experience otherwise.

    I expect many brick bats but I will be happy if even a single person changes his/her view after reading this.
     
  2. Audie

    Audie Veteran Member

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    Where on gods green earth is laissez faire
    capitalism being practiced?
     
  3. Nakosis

    Nakosis crystal soldier
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    Capitalists? You mean doctors?

    Capitalism allows the freedom to choose a doctor of your preference. In other systems you may not have the same luxury of choice.

    As far as medical costs, I don't know. Everybody in the business seems to be blaming someone else. Doctors blame insurance companies, insurance blames medical companies. Medical companies blame politicians and the cost of lobbying.
     
  4. atanu

    atanu Member
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    Not doctors. Doctors neither know chemistry nor are they the capitalists, in general.

    So, we don't know why the cancer drugs are so costly.
     
  5. Nakosis

    Nakosis crystal soldier
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    Ok. which capitalists are you referring to?


    Maybe someone knows, I can't seem to find a straight answer. It's not the cost of manufacture. I've heard it is the cost of government regulation. It takes a lot of money to get approval for a new drug. Pharmaceutical companies pass that cost unto the consumer. They want to recover their costs in a certain time frame, like maybe a year. Also be able to financially new research.

    I don't know really how to dig into that cost to know if it is justified.

    Clinical trials that support FDA approvals of new drugs have a median cost of $19 million, according to a new study by a team including researchers from Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health.

    The study, published Sept. 24 in JAMA Internal Medicine, is the most comprehensive analysis of key drug trial costs to date, and suggests that these costs contribute only modestly to the overall costs of developing new drugs.

    The $19 million median figure represents less than one percent of the average total cost of developing a new drug, which in recent years has been estimated at between $2 to $3 billion.
    Cost of Clinical Trials For New Drug FDA Approval Are Fraction of Total Tab


    The research and development costs of 106 randomly selected new drugs were obtained from a survey of 10 pharmaceutical firms. These data were used to estimate the average pre-tax cost of new drug and biologics development. The costs of compounds abandoned during testing were linked to the costs of compounds that obtained marketing approval. The estimated average out-of-pocket cost per approved new compound is $1395 million (2013 dollars). Capitalizing out-of-pocket costs to the point of marketing approval at a real discount rate of 10.5% yields a total pre-approval cost estimate of $2558 million (2013 dollars). When compared to the results of the previous study in this series, total capitalized costs were shown to have increased at an annual rate of 8.5% above general price inflation. Adding an estimate of post-approval R&D costs increases the cost estimate to $2870 million (2013 dollars).
    https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0167629616000291
     
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  6. atanu

    atanu Member
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    In general to those who embody greed.

    WHO determined that cancer drug costs are not justified by R&D costs.

    Is the price tag justified for cancer drugs?
     
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  7. lewisnotmiller

    lewisnotmiller Grand Hat
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    The part I never understand is the difference in cost in the States. I don't get why your drugs should be so much more expensive than in Australia (for example).
    I guess it is due to us having more regulation, but...*shrugs*

    Cancer drugs are way more expensive in the US than other countries
     
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  8. Nakosis

    Nakosis crystal soldier
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    I've tried looking into it. I suspect it is a cash cow for both pharmaceuticals and politicians.
     
  9. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest I have the kavorka
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    Question....
    If we really had this unregulated capitalism (as is claimed
    by many), what is preventing any company from undercutting
    a high price competitor?
     
  10. lewisnotmiller

    lewisnotmiller Grand Hat
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    It's about where I am at.
    I'm talking generally here, but the States seems so philosophically opposed to government control over the ability of industries to make profit that it leaves certain sectors open for exploitation (with banking and pharm seeming the obvious examples).
     
  11. lewisnotmiller

    lewisnotmiller Grand Hat
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    Lots of things. Consolidation of businesses (monopoly) or collusion (oligarchy) are the simplest examples, so I could start with those I guess.
     
  12. Nakosis

    Nakosis crystal soldier
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    States have a vested interest in industry making profits. Especially those that rely heavily on taxes for whatever policy/programs they want to support.
     
  13. lewisnotmiller

    lewisnotmiller Grand Hat
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    Oops, sorry...
    by 'States' I meant the United States of America, as a whole.

    And yes, I agree that the state has a vested interest in industries being successful in terms of employing citizens, etc, and also turning a profit and paying taxes, etc.
    But...

    Taxpayers End Up Funding Drug Companies
    Pharmaceutical Giants Have Avoided Paying About $2.3 Billion in Taxes in the US Alone

    This looks at the variance between Europe and Canada and the USA in terms of the level of profit drug companies make compared to R&D costs to market a new drug.
    It specifically addresses one of the arguments against the USA drug prices being overheated I have heard (ie. that the USA is funding drugs for the rest of the world).

    https://www.healthaffairs.org/do/10.1377/hblog20170602.060376/full/
     
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  14. Nakosis

    Nakosis crystal soldier
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    Our system of government has set it up so lawmakers benefit from excessive prices. No one seems interested in correcting that. Who currently running for office talks about it?
     
  15. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest I have the kavorka
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    We see fair prices in other industries, eg, cars, trucks, entertainment,
    tools, bicycles, furniture, phones, clothing, food, lumber, etc, etc.
    The oligarchy, monopolarchy, patriarchy, gasoline, & other archies
    don't cause obscene price inflation there?
    What prevents competitors from entering the drug business?
    There's something fundamentally different with pharma.
     
  16. lewisnotmiller

    lewisnotmiller Grand Hat
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    'Fair' is subjective though.
    Consolidation of the US air industry has contributed to less competitive practises such as charging customers for their first bag checked in.

    Baggage fees contribute a massive (and increasing) amount of revenue.
    U.S. Airlines are Making a Fortune from Baggage Fees

    The lack of true competition in the domestic market combines with the difficult entry point for newcomers, high levels of safety regulation and oversight in the industry, and a massively cashed up group of incumbents ready to crush competitors.

    In that sense, I think it's somewhat similar to pharma.
     
  17. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest I have the kavorka
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    That example actually serves my purpose, ie, air fares have
    fallen greatly in the years I've been flying. It make sense to
    charge for luggage. I do carry-on for convenience, & would
    rather not subsidize those who check it.
    If the market is under monopolistic control, than that would be worth curbing.
     
  18. atanu

    atanu Member
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    Do you mean “If the market is under monopolistic control, then that would be worth curbing.”...?
     
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  19. Shad

    Shad Veteran Member

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    Back in the 80's and 90s as part of medicare reforms government caved to the medical industry regarding drug pricing while making renegotiation of those prices down the road illegal. A new reform Bill has to amendment the negotiation clause. No such Bill has been passed. Even Obamacare couldn't address drugs costs properly as it was not an amendment (think about it). Medicare being the primary public option effected the private industry's pricing as the public option is typical the low-balling coverage.

    I disagree. They did it due to kick backs from the medical industry.

    Homeopathy is not even covered in Canada. It has nothing to do with a conspiracy but unreliable results.
     
  20. Shad

    Shad Veteran Member

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    Government sold out via Medicare to the medical industry. Seriously. It is illegal in the US to renegotiation price costs without amending Medicare laws. By costs I mean those that are in each specific Bill. New drugs, brands, etc are not subject if not expressly in the Bill.. Hence why the US is bringing in generic brands from Canada. Many of these didn't exist when those laws were passed. The US government also has serious hurdles for generics to pass the FDA. A lot of brand name drugs have patents so a generic can not merely copy an existing formula but must alter it enough to not be a copy. If the formula is close enough to a patent in the views of the brand name company it will challenge the generic in court. The generic must also pass FDA regulations often require evidence of the success of the drug that does not always account for use in another nation's system. Typical it wants to see clinical studies.
     
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