• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Ladder to the sky

Trimijopulos

Hard-core atheist
Premium Member
Genesis 28:12

He had a dream; a stairway was set on the ground and its top reached to the sky, and messengers of God (Elohim) were going up and down on it. (JPS)

The messengers, who were allowed to climb the ladder, were gods. Hermes, of the Greek pantheon, is well-known as the messenger of the gods.
Most of the messengers of the Mesopotamian pantheon of gods were known by their names. Inanna’s messenger, for example, was called Ninshubur.
In Norse mythology, the messenger of the gods is Hermod, one of the sons of Odin. Gna is the messenger of the goddess Frigga, the wife of Odin.
For the natives of the Caroline Islands, the god of fire, singing, and dancing, Olofad is the messenger of Lugeilan, the god of knowledge.
The god Tiki, from the Marquesas and Society Islands, is the god of virility and the messenger of the gods.
The natives of the Samoa Islands say that the creator Tangaroa created several Tangaroas; among them was Tangaroa the messenger. This messenger Tangaroa created many islands in behalf of Tangaroa the creator. In this case, we have a messenger-creator, or rather an angel-creator.

Messengers occur also in the Japanese legends, where giants, gods and men are all called “Kami”: wild kami the giants, heavenly kami the gods and just kami the men. From the Kojiki:

My elder brother, Ukasi, ran after the messenger of the son of the Celestial kami.

The great Mexican god Quetzalcoatl besides his other many titles was also called messenger of the gods.
In the Persian tradition, Sraosh was the divine messenger and mediator between gods and humans.
According to Chinese mythology:

Chuan Hsu observed all that was happening, the distress, the violence and the confusion caused by the two worlds being too close. He thought and he discussed with the wise ones. He saw that easy access between the gods and the humans was not good for either.
Chuan Hsu resolved to change this and to break the physical links between Heaven and Earth. He ordered the two gods Chung and Li to cut down the ladder.


For the Australian aborigines the ladder was a tree reaching to the sky, which was also cut down. In Norse mythology, it is a bridge that connects the earth and sky. The god in charge of the bridge was Heimdal.
The legend of the World Parents (Earth-Sky) and their separation is known from the cultures of:

The Sumerians.
The Egyptians.
The Pelasgians, the inhabitants of Greek peninsula before the advent of the Greek tribes.
The Greeks.
The Romans.
The Celts.
The people of India.
The Chinese.
The Japanese.
The African tribes.
The natives of New Zealand and Polynesia.
The natives of Micronesia.
The Indians of North America.
The Moseten Indians of Bolivia.
The Mayas.

The oldest religious texts, the Ancient Egyptian Pyramid Texts (c. 2350 BCE) provide the solution to this mysterious sky ladder:
ladder 1.jpg

The Pyramid Texts, Utterance 478 §974, Pyramid of Pepi I

You (god Geb) have given this king Pepi birth like you have given birth to the god who owns the ladder.
You gave him the ladder of the god, you gave him the ladder of Seth, that he may go up on it to the sky.


The Pyramid Texts, Utterance 539 §1322-3, Pyramid of Pepi I

Any god who will not offer stairway to king Pepi-Meryre to proceed and ascend to the sky, he will have no biscuit and no fan; he will not wash himself in a washbowl, he will smell no roasted foreleg, he will devour no haunch.

Obviously, the ‘earthly gods’ (kings and noblemen) climbed those ladders, went to live up in the sky and became the heavenly gods (one of whom created the universe).
As you may have noticed, at that time the heavenly gods liked to smell roasted foreleg, and to devour the haunch.

Genesis 8:20-21
Then Noah built an altar to יהוה (Yahweh) and, taking of every pure animal and of every pure bird, he offered burnt offerings on the altar.
יהוה
(Yahweh) smelled the pleasing odor, and יהוה (Yahweh) resolved: “Never again will I doom the earth because of humankind, since the devisings of the human mind are evil from youth; nor will I ever again destroy every living being, as I have done. JPS

The very first time it was told that kings and noblemen climbed ladders to the sky, it was, certainly, told as a joke!



 

Trimijopulos

Hard-core atheist
Premium Member
I'll bite, what makes you so sure it was told as a joke and not simply a lie?
A lie is told when there is even the slightest possibility to be accepted as something true.

The church keeps producing fresh saints (at least here in Greece) by telling people that George ascended to the sky and became saint George because people know gods and saints are up there in the sky.

When the gods were still living on the top of the mountains (a good, believable lie -Mount Olympus to the Greeks, the Cedar Forest on the mountains to Sumerians), telling people that the gods climbed ladders to the sky could have been told only as a joke, or the people would think that the person telling was insane.
 

Elihoenai

Well-Known Member
Genesis 28:12

He had a dream; a stairway was set on the ground and its top reached to the sky, and messengers of God (Elohim) were going up and down on it. (JPS)

The messengers, who were allowed to climb the ladder, were gods. Hermes, of the Greek pantheon, is well-known as the messenger of the gods.
Most of the messengers of the Mesopotamian pantheon of gods were known by their names. Inanna’s messenger, for example, was called Ninshubur.
In Norse mythology, the messenger of the gods is Hermod, one of the sons of Odin. Gna is the messenger of the goddess Frigga, the wife of Odin.
For the natives of the Caroline Islands, the god of fire, singing, and dancing, Olofad is the messenger of Lugeilan, the god of knowledge.
The god Tiki, from the Marquesas and Society Islands, is the god of virility and the messenger of the gods.
The natives of the Samoa Islands say that the creator Tangaroa created several Tangaroas; among them was Tangaroa the messenger. This messenger Tangaroa created many islands in behalf of Tangaroa the creator. In this case, we have a messenger-creator, or rather an angel-creator.

Messengers occur also in the Japanese legends, where giants, gods and men are all called “Kami”: wild kami the giants, heavenly kami the gods and just kami the men. From the Kojiki:

My elder brother, Ukasi, ran after the messenger of the son of the Celestial kami.

The great Mexican god Quetzalcoatl besides his other many titles was also called messenger of the gods.
In the Persian tradition, Sraosh was the divine messenger and mediator between gods and humans.
According to Chinese mythology:

Chuan Hsu observed all that was happening, the distress, the violence and the confusion caused by the two worlds being too close. He thought and he discussed with the wise ones. He saw that easy access between the gods and the humans was not good for either.
Chuan Hsu resolved to change this and to break the physical links between Heaven and Earth. He ordered the two gods Chung and Li to cut down the ladder.


For the Australian aborigines the ladder was a tree reaching to the sky, which was also cut down. In Norse mythology, it is a bridge that connects the earth and sky. The god in charge of the bridge was Heimdal.
The legend of the World Parents (Earth-Sky) and their separation is known from the cultures of:

The Sumerians.
The Egyptians.
The Pelasgians, the inhabitants of Greek peninsula before the advent of the Greek tribes.
The Greeks.
The Romans.
The Celts.
The people of India.
The Chinese.
The Japanese.
The African tribes.
The natives of New Zealand and Polynesia.
The natives of Micronesia.
The Indians of North America.
The Moseten Indians of Bolivia.
The Mayas.

The oldest religious texts, the Ancient Egyptian Pyramid Texts (c. 2350 BCE) provide the solution to this mysterious sky ladder:
View attachment 72856
The Pyramid Texts, Utterance 478 §974, Pyramid of Pepi I

You (god Geb) have given this king Pepi birth like you have given birth to the god who owns the ladder.
You gave him the ladder of the god, you gave him the ladder of Seth, that he may go up on it to the sky.


The Pyramid Texts, Utterance 539 §1322-3, Pyramid of Pepi I

Any god who will not offer stairway to king Pepi-Meryre to proceed and ascend to the sky, he will have no biscuit and no fan; he will not wash himself in a washbowl, he will smell no roasted foreleg, he will devour no haunch.

Obviously, the ‘earthly gods’ (kings and noblemen) climbed those ladders, went to live up in the sky and became the heavenly gods (one of whom created the universe).
As you may have noticed, at that time the heavenly gods liked to smell roasted foreleg, and to devour the haunch.

Genesis 8:20-21
Then Noah built an altar to יהוה (Yahweh) and, taking of every pure animal and of every pure bird, he offered burnt offerings on the altar.
יהוה
(Yahweh) smelled the pleasing odor, and יהוה (Yahweh) resolved: “Never again will I doom the earth because of humankind, since the devisings of the human mind are evil from youth; nor will I ever again destroy every living being, as I have done. JPS

The very first time it was told that kings and noblemen climbed ladders to the sky, it was, certainly, told as a joke!
Ephesians 4:6

6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.



One Elohim/God Manifesting in Different ways to Different people throughout the ages. There is One Elohim/God that IS All Things that exists.
 
Last edited:

Trimijopulos

Hard-core atheist
Premium Member
Ephesians 4:6

6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.



One Elohim/God Manifesting in Different ways to Different people throughout the ages. There is One Elohim/God that IS All Things that exists.
I am only interested in the Hebrew Bible.
 

Trimijopulos

Hard-core atheist
Premium Member
Why would a Hardcore Atheist be interested in the Hebrew Scriptures/Bible? What is the Purpose of your interest? Is this an Academic interest?
I am fond of ancient texts. I taught myself to translate the Egyptian hieroglyphic and I have been studying the Egyptian texts in the original for the last fifteen years.

I am also fond of the Hebrew Bible because there is evidence in the Bible that the gods were the Israelites themselves. The Hebrew Bible is the best weapon there is to use against theology.

Read the post titled Exodus 4:24-26
 

Elihoenai

Well-Known Member
I am fond of ancient texts. I taught myself to translate the Egyptian hieroglyphic and I have been studying the Egyptian texts in the original for the last fifteen years.

I am also fond of the Hebrew Bible because there is evidence in the Bible that the gods were the Israelites themselves. The Hebrew Bible is the best weapon there is to use against theology.

Read the post titled Exodus 4:24-26
As an Hardcore Atheist, are you Against Elohim/God or Against Theology? Yet, you are looking for Evidence that the Israelites were Gods. What do you mean by the term Hardcore Atheist? How do you define Theology?


Response to the post Exodus 4:24-26:

That is the Earthly Yahweh. What is the Essential difference between a Pagan and Non-Pagan?


548px-Tizian_085.jpg


The Rape of Europa (Titian)

Description


".Titian is unequivocal about the fact that this is a scene of rape (abduction): Europa is sprawled helplessly on her back, her clothes in disarray.[4] The painting depicts Europa on the back of the bull, just off the shore of her homeland. Although the act of sexual violence is not depicted in the painting, it is implied through Europa's open-legged posture and her expression of fear as she is dragged off by Zeus.[5] Her danger is also implied by her waving a red silk scarf and by the sea monster in the foreground of the painting...."

 

Trimijopulos

Hard-core atheist
Premium Member
As an Hardcore Atheist, are you Against Elohim/God or Against Theology? Yet, you are looking for Evidence that the Israelites were Gods. What do you mean by the term Hardcore Atheist? How do you define Theology?


Response to the post Exodus 4:24-26:

That is the Earthly Yahweh. What is the Essential difference between a Pagan and Non-Pagan?
What do I mean by the term hardcore atheist?
Actually, I am just άθεος (Godless in English) but the term “atheist” has come to mean agnostic and I do not like agnostics. So, by hardcore atheist, I mean atheist but not agnostic.

I am against religion and religion is the work of theology.

The gods of the myths and legends are us, the white people. That is why the ancient Egyptian texts teach us that Ra is but the Egyptian noblemen and the Bible that the sons of Elohim are the Israelites themselves.

The painting is excellent! Zeus was no exception!

As for Pagan and non-Pagan, the distinction we can find is only in theology. The people have been revering, honoring, and worshipping the Mother of gods for at least 40,000 years and they still do, paying not much attention to theological nonsense.

Theology is based on the theological concept of a masturbating god.
 

Elihoenai

Well-Known Member
What do I mean by the term hardcore atheist?
Actually, I am just άθεος (Godless in English) but the term “atheist” has come to mean agnostic and I do not like agnostics. So, by hardcore atheist, I mean atheist but not agnostic.

I am against religion and religion is the work of theology.

The gods of the myths and legends are us, the white people. That is why the ancient Egyptian texts teach us that Ra is but the Egyptian noblemen and the Bible that the sons of Elohim are the Israelites themselves.

The painting is excellent! Zeus was no exception!

As for Pagan and non-Pagan, the distinction we can find is only in theology. The people have been revering, honoring, and worshipping the Mother of gods for at least 40,000 years and they still do, paying not much attention to theological nonsense.

Theology is based on the theological concept of a masturbating god.
Are you saying that as an Atheist, you don't believe in God? Are you saying that White People believe they are Gods and that the Israelites believe the same that they are Gods?

Are you saying that White Males Masturbate to produce Superior Pure Blood?
 

Trimijopulos

Hard-core atheist
Premium Member
Are you saying that as an Atheist, you don't believe in God? Are you saying that White People believe they are Gods and that the Israelites believe the same that they are Gods?
I am saying that as an atheist I know there is no God.

According to the texts, the ancient Egyptians and the ancient Israelites by “God” meant themselves. How do you think that the god/God concept appeared?
Are you saying that White Males Masturbate to produce Superior Pure Blood?
Read the post quoted above.
 

Elihoenai

Well-Known Member
I am saying that as an atheist I know there is no God.

According to the texts, the ancient Egyptians and the ancient Israelites by “God” meant themselves. How do you think that the god/God concept appeared?

Read the post quoted above.
As an Ultra Extremist Religious Christian Gnostic, I Am saying with Absolute Certainty that there is Elohim/God and Only Elohim/God.


@Trimijopulos

Do you have any Morals? If yes, what are those Morals? Do you believe that there is Sin? Do you believe that you, @Trimijopulos, like the Egyptians, Israelites and White People are Elohim/God?
 

PearlSeeker

Well-Known Member
Genesis 28:12

He had a dream; a stairway was set on the ground and its top reached to the sky, and messengers of God (Elohim) were going up and down on it. (JPS)

The messengers, who were allowed to climb the ladder, were gods. Hermes, of the Greek pantheon, is well-known as the messenger of the gods.
Most of the messengers of the Mesopotamian pantheon of gods were known by their names. Inanna’s messenger, for example, was called Ninshubur.
In Norse mythology, the messenger of the gods is Hermod, one of the sons of Odin. Gna is the messenger of the goddess Frigga, the wife of Odin.
For the natives of the Caroline Islands, the god of fire, singing, and dancing, Olofad is the messenger of Lugeilan, the god of knowledge.
The god Tiki, from the Marquesas and Society Islands, is the god of virility and the messenger of the gods.
The natives of the Samoa Islands say that the creator Tangaroa created several Tangaroas; among them was Tangaroa the messenger. This messenger Tangaroa created many islands in behalf of Tangaroa the creator. In this case, we have a messenger-creator, or rather an angel-creator.

Messengers occur also in the Japanese legends, where giants, gods and men are all called “Kami”: wild kami the giants, heavenly kami the gods and just kami the men. From the Kojiki:

My elder brother, Ukasi, ran after the messenger of the son of the Celestial kami.

The great Mexican god Quetzalcoatl besides his other many titles was also called messenger of the gods.
In the Persian tradition, Sraosh was the divine messenger and mediator between gods and humans.
According to Chinese mythology:

Chuan Hsu observed all that was happening, the distress, the violence and the confusion caused by the two worlds being too close. He thought and he discussed with the wise ones. He saw that easy access between the gods and the humans was not good for either.
Chuan Hsu resolved to change this and to break the physical links between Heaven and Earth. He ordered the two gods Chung and Li to cut down the ladder.


For the Australian aborigines the ladder was a tree reaching to the sky, which was also cut down. In Norse mythology, it is a bridge that connects the earth and sky. The god in charge of the bridge was Heimdal.
The legend of the World Parents (Earth-Sky) and their separation is known from the cultures of:

The Sumerians.
The Egyptians.
The Pelasgians, the inhabitants of Greek peninsula before the advent of the Greek tribes.
The Greeks.
The Romans.
The Celts.
The people of India.
The Chinese.
The Japanese.
The African tribes.
The natives of New Zealand and Polynesia.
The natives of Micronesia.
The Indians of North America.
The Moseten Indians of Bolivia.
The Mayas.

The oldest religious texts, the Ancient Egyptian Pyramid Texts (c. 2350 BCE) provide the solution to this mysterious sky ladder:
View attachment 72856
The Pyramid Texts, Utterance 478 §974, Pyramid of Pepi I

You (god Geb) have given this king Pepi birth like you have given birth to the god who owns the ladder.
You gave him the ladder of the god, you gave him the ladder of Seth, that he may go up on it to the sky.


The Pyramid Texts, Utterance 539 §1322-3, Pyramid of Pepi I

Any god who will not offer stairway to king Pepi-Meryre to proceed and ascend to the sky, he will have no biscuit and no fan; he will not wash himself in a washbowl, he will smell no roasted foreleg, he will devour no haunch.

Obviously, the ‘earthly gods’ (kings and noblemen) climbed those ladders, went to live up in the sky and became the heavenly gods (one of whom created the universe).
As you may have noticed, at that time the heavenly gods liked to smell roasted foreleg, and to devour the haunch.

Genesis 8:20-21
Then Noah built an altar to יהוה (Yahweh) and, taking of every pure animal and of every pure bird, he offered burnt offerings on the altar.
יהוה
(Yahweh) smelled the pleasing odor, and יהוה (Yahweh) resolved: “Never again will I doom the earth because of humankind, since the devisings of the human mind are evil from youth; nor will I ever again destroy every living being, as I have done. JPS

The very first time it was told that kings and noblemen climbed ladders to the sky, it was, certainly, told as a joke!

It was told as a myth. Same patterns are archetypes.

 
Top