Lack of paid employment

[ronki23]

In addition to a Bachelor's and a Master's Degree I have had 4 jobs where I have worked as a volunteer: at one job interview they asked me "have you done any PAID work ?". Granted this was a commission-only job at least 2 other job applications of mine have asked me for previous salary (of which I have none, only hourly wage).

What is the legality of asking previous salary and, more importantly, why do people lie and say "volunteering is invaluable experience " if that's not the case ?

 

[Revoltingest]

Volunteering can be valuable. Like degrees,
it matters what is learned/performed.
But life doesn't offer guarantees, other
than the proverbial death & taxes.

 

[Truth in love]

In addition to a Bachelor's and a Master's Degree I have had 4 jobs where I have worked as a volunteer: at one job interview they asked me "have you done any PAID work ?". Granted this was a commission-only job at least 2 other job applications of mine have asked me for previous salary (of which I have none, only hourly wage).

What is the legality of asking previous salary and, more importantly, why do people lie and say "volunteering is invaluable experience " if that's not the case ?

I can’t speak for all areas, but when I was in grad school they told us that in my profession the burn out rate at 2 years was 80%.
A lot of employer’s want someone else to take on the major headaches of training sorting out employees who have the wanted skills and attributes.

 

[PureX]

In addition to a Bachelor's and a Master's Degree I have had 4 jobs where I have worked as a volunteer: at one job interview they asked me "have you done any PAID work ?". Granted this was a commission-only job at least 2 other job applications of mine have asked me for previous salary (of which I have none, only hourly wage).

What is the legality of asking previous salary and, more importantly, why do people lie and say "volunteering is invaluable experience " if that's not the case ?

They can ask whatever they want, but you don't have to answer. Though they'll throw your applicationin the trash when you don't answer because you defied their request.

 

[pearl]

What is the legality of asking previous salary and, more importantly, why do people lie and say "volunteering is invaluable experience " if that's not the case ?

It gives the prospective employer a clue as to what you might expect and does it fit with her/his want to pay.
Volunteering is good for experience but says little as work ethic.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

What is the legality of asking previous salary and, more importantly, why do people lie and say "volunteering is invaluable experience " if that's not the case ?

AFAIK, it's generally legal to ask, but it's also legal to decline to answer... or to reframe the question to talk about your salary expectations for your new job.

(And I've never done it, but I've seen memes about turning the question around and asking the interviewer what the salary of the last person in the position was - I think there's an interesting point there.)

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

See here.

If I am hiring for a position which pays $60K annually and learn that you're use to a salary in the mid $70s, I will have some concern,

 

[Aupmanyav]

Why not answer calmly and factually, say 'no', in case one has not done any paid work. Perhaps there will be questions after that.
Lord Rama: "Satyena nasti param padam" (There is no station higher than truth - Valmiki Ramayana)
Satya Slokas (If you know Hindi)

 

[Bathos Logos]

In addition to a Bachelor's and a Master's Degree I have had 4 jobs where I have worked as a volunteer: at one job interview they asked me "have you done any PAID work ?". Granted this was a commission-only job at least 2 other job applications of mine have asked me for previous salary (of which I have none, only hourly wage).

What is the legality of asking previous salary and, more importantly, why do people lie and say "volunteering is invaluable experience " if that's not the case ?

It probably has to do with the asker feeling more confident in the skills of someone that they can know someone else was willing to actually pay money to acquire. If it can appear as if you may have some skill, but no one has actually paid for you to use them, there could be some hesitancy there.

 

[idea]

They can ask whatever they want, but you don't have to answer. Though they'll throw your applicationin the trash when you don't answer because you defied their request.

I'm on hiring committees, and no, we are not allowed to ask whatever we want.
You cannot ask about age, race, religious beliefs, or gender

I was hired to my current job based on past volunteer work. Was a stay at home mom who ran programs at schools for free - ran science fairs, science labs, art appreciation, was really involved in community. Bring a portfolio with you, good set of references, volunteering is a good thing

Can You Trick ATS Robots with White Font on Your CV? | The CV Store Blog
↑ using white font is not a good idea, but realize it is ATM who will sort, so use key words from job descript in your CV.

 

[ronki23]

I'm on hiring committees, and no, we are not allowed to ask whatever we want.
You cannot ask about age, race, religious beliefs, or gender

I was hired to my current job based on past volunteer work. Was a stay at home mom who ran programs at schools for free - ran science fairs, science labs, art appreciation, was really involved in community. Bring a portfolio with you, good set of references, volunteering is a good thing

Can You Trick ATS Robots with White Font on Your CV? | The CV Store Blog
↑ using white font is not a good idea, but realize it is ATM who will sort, so use key words from job descript in your CV.

Volunteering can be valuable. Like degrees,
it matters what is learned/performed.
But life doesn't offer guarantees, other
than the proverbial death & taxes.

I can’t speak for all areas, but when I was in grad school they told us that in my profession the burn out rate at 2 years was 80%.
A lot of employer’s want someone else to take on the major headaches of training sorting out employees who have the wanted skills and attributes.

They can ask whatever they want, but you don't have to answer. Though they'll throw your applicationin the trash when you don't answer because you defied their request.

It gives the prospective employer a clue as to what you might expect and does it fit with her/his want to pay.
Volunteering is good for experience but says little as work ethic.

It probably has to do with the asker feeling more confident in the skills of someone that they can know someone else was willing to actually pay money to acquire. If it can appear as if you may have some skill, but no one has actually paid for you to use them, there could be some hesitancy there.

I am autistic (Asperger's) and when I was on Prozac in 2018 I became depressed (I was already depressed 2013-2016) so I haven't looked for work since. And no, I don't claim any benefits.

You can not get a job without experience and you can not get experience without a job. I thought volunteering was the best way to get experience but now they ask if it was paid / the previous salary. The only paid work I had was part-time, waged work.

I'm so bitter about having to spend thousands to get two degrees: education is there to bypass the entry levels. I should have just worked my way up. And before my political views are criticised it was Labour (Tony Blair) who introduced tuition fees

 

[PureX]

I am autistic (Asperger's) and when I was on Prozac in 2018 I became depressed (I was already depressed 2013-2016) so I haven't looked for work since. And no, I don't claim any benefits.

You can not get a job without experience and you can not get experience without a job. I thought volunteering was the best way to get experience but now they ask if it was paid / the previous salary. The only paid work I had was part-time, waged work.

I'm so bitter about having to spend thousands to get two degrees: education is there to bypass the entry levels. I should have just worked my way up. And before my political views are criticised it was Labour (Tony Blair) who introduced tuition fees

I have known many people in addiction recovery circles that have had to face the difficulty of a job "market" that is totally skewed in favor of the employer, and by having no acceptable job history, whatever. And sometimes even a prison record. And yet with the proper humility and determination I have seen these folks do surprisingly well in a surprisingly short time when I would have expected it to be a hopeless pursuit.

They will literally start anywhere, with any job, for any pay. And by showing up every day, on time, with a positive attitude, they very soon show themselves to be beneficial to whatever business enterprise they happen to be working for. And the people running that business will see it, and reward it, because it's in their own best interest to do so. Such personel make their jobs easier. And eventually they come to trust in that worker's reliable and positive nature, and will give them more responsibility, with better pay. Even if it doesn't happen, after a while they will have built up a positive work record saved a couple dollars that they can then use to look for a better job, elsewhere. Or even just a different job wit better opportunity for advancement.

My point is that we can always start at the bottom, because it is the bottom. And we can work our way up with the right attitude and the willingness to do the work well, and without complaint. Any employer worth his title will notice a good worker, and reward them, and advance them, because he wants to keep them around.

 

[sun rise]

What is the legality of asking previous salary and, more importantly, why do people lie and say "volunteering is invaluable experience " if that's not the case ?

It's not universal. I was a hiring manager for a time and volunteer work counted especially if field-related and especially if someone was just starting in a career.

I had a boss who had been given a career break at one point and paid it forward for the rest of his working life as a manager. He hired a friend of mine who had a degree, psychological issues with trying to teach history at a girl's prison and was on disability. That was a special case including my friend being absolutely honest which my boss at the time valued above almost everything else except willingness to work hard which was equal.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

They can ask whatever they want, but you don't have to answer. Though they'll throw your applicationin the trash when you don't answer because you defied their request.

Legally they cannot. Such as, a woman can be very noticeably very pregnant and it is illegal in the US to ask her if she's pregnant or planning on becoming pregnant. There are actually many questions they are legally prohibited from asking.
Illegal Interview Questions – Office of Career Strategy – Yale University

Illegal: Are you a U.S. citizen? You sound like you have an accent, where are you from? Where were your parents born? What is your native language?
Illegal: Are you married? Do you have children? If so, what do you do for child care? Are you planning to have children soon? Have you ever been divorced? Where is your spouse employed?
Illegal: How old are you? When were you born? How long have you been working?
Illegal: Do you have any disabilities or medical conditions? How is your health? Do you take any prescription drugs? Have you been diagnosed with a mental illness? Have you ever been an alcoholic? Have you ever been in rehab?
Illegal: What is your religion? Are you practicing?
Illegal: Have you ever been arrested?

Prohibited Employment Policies/Practices

As a general rule, the information obtained and requested through the pre-employment process should be limited to those essential for determining if a person is qualified for the job; whereas, information regarding race, sex, national origin, age, and religion are irrelevant in such determinations.

Employers are explicitly prohibited from making pre-offer inquiries about disability.

Although state and federal equal opportunity laws do not clearly forbid employers from making pre-employment inquiries that relate to, or disproportionately screen out members based on race, color, sex, national origin, religion, or age, such inquiries may be used as evidence of an employer's intent to discriminate unless the questions asked can be justified by some business purpose.

Therefore, inquiries about organizations, clubs, societies, and lodges of which an applicant may be a member or any other questions, which may indicate the applicant's race, sex, national origin, disability status, age, religion, color or ancestry if answered, should generally be avoided.

Similarly, employers should not ask for a photograph of an applicant. If needed for identification purposes, a photograph may be obtained after an offer of employment is made and accepted.

There are legal repercussions for violating these laws, and many companies have been successfully sued over illegal hiring and screening practices. It's so rigid that a lady with a disability successfully sued Kroger because she was asked in a pre-employment test a question that for most people is nothing but for her is directly related to her disability. That meant it's an illegal question and the judge agreed.

 

[idea]

I have known many people in addiction recovery circles that have had to face the difficulty of a job "market" that is totally skewed in favor of the employer having no acceptable job history, whatever. And sometimes even a prison record. And yet with the proper humility and determination I have seen these folks do surprisingly well in a surprisingly short time when I would have expected it to be a hopeless pursuit.

They will literally start anywhere, with any job, for any pay. And by showing up every day, on time, with a positive attitude, they very soon show themselves to be beneficial to whatever business enterprise they happen to be working for. And the people running that business will see it, and reward it, because it's in their own best interest to do so. Such personel make their jobs easier. And eventually they come to trust in that worker's reliable and positive nature, and will give them more responsibility, with better pay. Even if it doesn't happen, after a while they will have built up a positive work record saved a couple dollars that they can then use to look for a better job, elsewhere. Or even just a different job wit better opportunity for advancement.

My point is that we can always start at the bottom, because it is the bottom. And we can work our way up with the right attitude and the willingness to do the work well, and without complaint. Any employer worth his title will notice a good worker, and reward them, and advance them, because he wants to keep them around.

 

[ronki23]

It's not universal. I was a hiring manager for a time and volunteer work counted especially if field-related and especially if someone was just starting in a career.

I had a boss who had been given a career break at one point and paid it forward for the rest of his working life as a manager. He hired a friend of mine who had a degree, psychological issues with trying to teach history at a girl's prison and was on disability. That was a special case including my friend being absolutely honest which my boss at the time valued above almost everything else except willingness to work hard which was equal.

I have known many people in addiction recovery circles that have had to face the difficulty of a job "market" that is totally skewed in favor of the employer having no acceptable job history, whatever. And sometimes even a prison record. And yet with the proper humility and determination I have seen these folks do surprisingly well in a surprisingly short time when I would have expected it to be a hopeless pursuit.

They will literally start anywhere, with any job, for any pay. And by showing up every day, on time, with a positive attitude, they very soon show themselves to be beneficial to whatever business enterprise they happen to be working for. And the people running that business will see it, and reward it, because it's in their own best interest to do so. Such personel make their jobs easier. And eventually they come to trust in that worker's reliable and positive nature, and will give them more responsibility, with better pay. Even if it doesn't happen, after a while they will have built up a positive work record saved a couple dollars that they can then use to look for a better job, elsewhere. Or even just a different job wit better opportunity for advancement.

My point is that we can always start at the bottom, because it is the bottom. And we can work our way up with the right attitude and the willingness to do the work well, and without complaint. Any employer worth his title will notice a good worker, and reward them, and advance them, because he wants to keep them around.

I haven't worked for almost 2 years and before that I hadn't worked for 4 years.

Where do I go from here ?

 

[sun rise]

I haven't worked for almost 2 years and before that I hadn't worked for 4 years.

Where do I go from here ?

Let's say I'm a hiring manager. I pick up your cover letter and resume. I would expect to see what your degrees are in first of all. Then in order to even consider giving you a chance, I'd need to know why you did not get a job in your field (family, medical, something). I'd also need to know why you think the job you are applying for will work out and what you bring to the job.

My experience was that I had degrees in psychology (and chemistry) and had been fired from one job because a boss wanted me gone (long story). I talked with someone who gave me some career counseling advice. Summarizing it, "what do you have skill in that someone might pay you for"

I remembered really liking computers, took a course, updated my resume to highlight that course and my college volunteer work, dropped it off at a recruiter and a year and three months later got offered a grunt level programming contract which turned into a career.

From that experience, career counseling would be a recommendation with some focus on what the hiring world is like these days because my experience is decades old.