Lack of evidence

[mikkel_the_dane]

We need a list of all the gods claimed to exist.
And for each, we need a list of features / traits
that would be detectable in the natural world.

Now find something as a thing near you and then point to it. Fine.
Now point to God and you can't.
Now point to the natural world and you can't.
Both of the latter are first person cognitive subjective abstracts.

 

[Revoltingest]

Now find something as a thing near you and then point to it. Fine.
Now point to God and you can't.
Now point to the natural world and you can't.
Both of the latter are first person cognitive subjective abstracts.

Don't know what you're getting at.
I wanted the lists so we'd have
more of a basis for discussion.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Don't know what you're getting at.
I wanted the lists so we'd have
more of a basis for discussion.

I am pointing out that God and the natural world are both first person ideas.

 

[Revoltingest]

I am pointing out that God and the natural world are both first person ideas.

How is that claim useful in this discussion?

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

How is that claim useful in this discussion?

You claimed in effect the natural world as a fact. So you have the burden of proof for that one.

As for God as religious that is on me, but the natural world is on you.

 

[Revoltingest]

You claimed in effect the natural world as a fact.

I just asked for some lists.
Don't try so hard to infer claims not actually made.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

What about the lack of current available evidence? Evidence for the existence of other continents didn’t exist for the Europeans until they traveled the sea.

When you look and don't find the thing you're looking for, this is evidence that the thing isn't there.

If you do this thoroughly enough and do it enough times, you can come to a conclusion - at perfect certainty for all practical purposes - that the thing must not exist.

 

[PruePhillip]

I still have different personal experiences.

In Christianity all experiences must to be our own edifying. Jonah's experience was wildly different to Samuels, and King David had very different experiences to his son Solomon. But if these experiences do not bring us into relationship with Christ then our suffering has been in vain. David could say 'Bow down for I am poor and needy.' but his son Solomon could only say, 'Bow down and hear the words of my wisdom.' Nothing in Solomon's power and wealth really brought him into close relationship with God. David gave us much insight into the suffering and dying Messiah, even his crucifixion (something unknown in his time) but Solomon had no such vision.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

I just asked for some lists.
Don't try so hard to infer claims not actually made.

We need a list of all the gods claimed to exist.
And for each, we need a list of features / traits
that would be detectable in the natural world.

So the natural world is what? Your subjective belief and nothing else?!!! Acknowledge your own posts as a minimum. Otherwise civil debate is not possible and we can't have that.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

In Christianity all experiences must to be our own edifying. Jonah's experience was wildly different to Samuels, and King David had very different experiences to his son Solomon. But if these experiences do not bring us into relationship with Christ then our suffering has been in vain. David could say 'Bow down for I am poor and needy.' but his son Solomon could only say, 'Bow down and hear the words of my wisdom.' Nothing in Solomon's power and wealth really brought him into close relationship with God. David gave us much insight into the suffering and dying Messiah, even his crucifixion (something unknown in his time) but Solomon had no such vision.

Yes, but Christianity is not all personal religious experiences. To claim that as an universal standard is different from personal experiences.

 

[Revoltingest]

So the natural world is what?

That is a big subject beyond the scope of this thread.
I suggest that you do an internet search to discover
how it can be usefully described. Tell us your results.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

That is a big subject beyond the scope of this thread.
I suggest that you do an internet search to discover
how it can be usefully described. Tell us your results.

Yes, I have done that. There is no evidence that the world is natural.

I have been doing this for nearly 30 years now and you are not the first one to claim that there is a natural world. So stay within STEM and stop doing philosophy.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

When you look and don't find the thing you're looking for, this is evidence that the thing isn't there.

If you do this thoroughly enough and do it enough times, you can come to a conclusion - at perfect certainty for all practical purposes - that the thing must not exist.

Have you tried looking at those same things but through a different lens? Maybe you're not seeing the forest for the trees.

 

[Tinker Grey]

Have you tried looking at those same things but through a different lens?

What lens would that be? Would those be the sunglasses you don before entering a dark room declaring you've found the black cat?

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

What lens would that be? Would those be the sunglasses you don before entering a dark room declaring you've found the black cat?

We are in effect doing a combination of philosophy, natural science, social science, psychology and how to combine that.
I accept that you do it differently than me, but I can still do it differently than you.

 

[Revoltingest]

There is no evidence that the world is natural.

OK.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

OK.

Now the idea of the natural world can be useful, but so can the idea of God.

 

[Revoltingest]

Now the idea of the natural world can be useful, but so can the idea of God.

OK.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

OK.

Have come I don't trust that you understand it? I will try to remember this and if you claim evidence should be used for one and useful for another, I will call out the double standard.
But in all likely I will forget and I don't plan to follow all your posts.

 

[Revoltingest]

Have come I don't trust that you understand it? I will try to remember this and if you claim evidence should be used for one and useful for another, I will call out the double standard.
But in all likely I will forget and I don't plan to follow all your posts.

I'm acknowledging your posts.
Understanding them...that's another matter.