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Koran v. Bible

FearGod

Freedom Of Mind
The Kitáb-i-Aqdas

k189.
n193, n194
O members of parliaments throughout the world! Select ye a single language for the use of all on earth, and adopt ye likewise a common script. God, verily, maketh plain for you that which shall profit you and enable you to be independent of others. He, of a truth, is the Most Bountiful, the All-Knowing, the All-Informed. This will be the cause of unity, could ye but comprehend it, and the greatest instrument for promoting harmony and civilization, would that ye might understand! We have appointed two signs for the coming of age of the human race: the first, which is the most firm foundation, We have set down in other of Our Tablets, while the second hath been revealed in this wondrous Book.

So that is the words of god,god asked us through his messenger bahaullah to select one
language for the whole world,could it be iranian,indian,chinese,..etc or to invent one
new language similar to his new book.

Now god's request to unify the world's language to one language didn't become true,so i guess
god may send another messenger to unify the world language.

How this could be compliant with the quran which you agree that its the words of god.

((And among his wonders is the creation of the heavens and the earth, and the diversity of your tongues and colours: for in this, behold, there are messages indeed for all who are possessed of [innate] knowledge!)) (30:22)
 

InvestigateTruth

Well-Known Member
Mother tongue and unity in diversity

The Bahá'í teaching on an auxiliary international language does not in any way envision the decline of any living language or culture, and does not mandate cultural uniformity.[1] The Bahá'í teachings value and promote cultural diversity by stating that there should be unity in diversity.[3] The term "auxiliary" in Bahá'í scripture means that the international language will be taught in addition to one's own mother tongue, and to be secondary to one's native language.[11] As the auxiliary language is meant to be used for community-external, inter-community communication, it is functionally separate from ones primary language, and thus weakens its ability to compete with the primary language of one's culture, but still allows for reliable bridges to be created between communities.[11]
Bahá'í Faith and auxiliary language - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Bahá'í Reference Library - Bahá’u’lláh and the New Era, Pages 163-166
 

FearGod

Freedom Of Mind
Mother tongue and unity in diversity

The Bahá'í teaching on an auxiliary international language does not in any way envision the decline of any living language or culture, and does not mandate cultural uniformity.[1] The Bahá'í teachings value and promote cultural diversity by stating that there should be unity in diversity.[3] The term "auxiliary" in Bahá'í scripture means that the international language will be taught in addition to one's own mother tongue, and to be secondary to one's native language.[11] As the auxiliary language is meant to be used for community-external, inter-community communication, it is functionally separate from ones primary language, and thus weakens its ability to compete with the primary language of one's culture, but still allows for reliable bridges to be created between communities.[11]
Bahá'í Faith and auxiliary language - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Bahá'í Reference Library - Bahá’u’lláh and the New Era, Pages 163-166

O members of parliaments throughout the world! Select ye a single language for the use of all on earth, and adopt ye likewise a common script.

and what about likewise a common script,to use local script and to use one international script.

Would you explain it.
 

InvestigateTruth

Well-Known Member
O members of parliaments throughout the world! Select ye a single language for the use of all on earth, and adopt ye likewise a common script.

and what about likewise a common script,to use local script and to use one international script.

Would you explain it.

Script means Alphabets for writing.
So, in addition to the natural local languages and writings, there should be a common international language for both speaking and writing so people where ever they go, they can communicate with each other easier, and don't feel like strangers in another country.
 

1robin

Christian/Baptist
Fear not: 160 years ago there were MILLIONS of Christians and ZERO Baha'is!

And in the future, the numbers will doubtless keep shifting so that the proportion of Baha'is becomes greater and greater, and eventually surpasses the Christian numbers.

There is progress! :)

Bruce
That only proves someone invented another new religion. You seem to be dismissing numbers as evidence which was exactly my point for making my statement and then you assert numbers mean something. Which is it?
 

1robin

Christian/Baptist
The Kitáb-i-Aqdas

k189.
n193, n194
O members of parliaments throughout the world! Select ye a single language for the use of all on earth, and adopt ye likewise a common script. God, verily, maketh plain for you that which shall profit you and enable you to be independent of others. He, of a truth, is the Most Bountiful, the All-Knowing, the All-Informed. This will be the cause of unity, could ye but comprehend it, and the greatest instrument for promoting harmony and civilization, would that ye might understand! We have appointed two signs for the coming of age of the human race: the first, which is the most firm foundation, We have set down in other of Our Tablets, while the second hath been revealed in this wondrous Book.

So that is the words of god,god asked us through his messenger bahaullah to select one
language for the whole world,could it be iranian,indian,chinese,..etc or to invent one
new language similar to his new book.

Now god's request to unify the world's language to one language didn't become true,so i guess
god may send another messenger to unify the world language.

How this could be compliant with the quran which you agree that its the words of god.

((And among his wonders is the creation of the heavens and the earth, and the diversity of your tongues and colours: for in this, behold, there are messages indeed for all who are possessed of [innate] knowledge!)) (30:22)
What are trying so hard to claim? I could randomly post verses but without a context and claim it is useless.
 

1robin

Christian/Baptist
Mother tongue and unity in diversity

The Bahá'í teaching on an auxiliary international language does not in any way envision the decline of any living language or culture, and does not mandate cultural uniformity.[1] The Bahá'í teachings value and promote cultural diversity by stating that there should be unity in diversity.[3] The term "auxiliary" in Bahá'í scripture means that the international language will be taught in addition to one's own mother tongue, and to be secondary to one's native language.[11] As the auxiliary language is meant to be used for community-external, inter-community communication, it is functionally separate from ones primary language, and thus weakens its ability to compete with the primary language of one's culture, but still allows for reliable bridges to be created between communities.[11]
Bahá'í Faith and auxiliary language - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Bahá'í Reference Library - Bahá’u’lláh and the New Era, Pages 163-166
What are trying so hard to claim? I could randomly post verses but without a context and claim it is useless.
 

BruceDLimber

Well-Known Member
Which is it?

You can't have it both ways.

The Baha'i Faith has grown from zero adherents to around seven million over the past century and a half, roughly, and is cited by several non-Baha'i sources as the second most widespread religion (despite its small numbers) and the fastest-growing among those religions already established in over 100 countries.

So while you may sneeze at its still-small numbers all you like, the fact remains that it has indeed grown substantially (to say the least1), with no end in sight!

Like it or not, we're here to stay.

Peace, :)

Bruce
 

1robin

Christian/Baptist
You can't have it both ways.

The Baha'i Faith has grown from zero adherents to around seven million over the past century and a half, roughly, and is cited by several non-Baha'i sources as the second most widespread religion (despite its small numbers) and the fastest-growing among those religions already established in over 100 countries.

So while you may sneeze at its still-small numbers all you like, the fact remains that it has indeed grown substantially (to say the least1), with no end in sight!

Like it or not, we're here to stay.

Peace, :)

Bruce
Do you actually read the posts you respond to? Your Baha i brother Investigate truth" said
Although many Christians converted to Baha’I Faith
. He has appealed to numbers many times and so I replied
Even if that were true it has nothing to do with whether the faith is true or not. Christianity has 239 members for every 1 Baha i. I wish you would drop these unimpressive and meaningless statistic claims.
Obviously I was saying that numbers do not determine truth but even if they did Christianity would win. I was trying to illustrate the futility to appealing to numbers.

Now to this clear stance of mine you chopped half of my statement and responded to the last part only:
Fear not: 160 years ago there were MILLIONS of Christians and ZERO Baha'is!
Once again an appeal to numbers fallacy by the Baha i guys and you even add that you think I was appealing to numbers but point out rightly so that that makes no sence. I figure you must just be confused again and so I say this:

That only proves someone invented another new religion. You seem to be dismissing numbers as evidence which was exactly my point for making my statement and then you assert numbers mean something.
Pointing out your confusion and reclarifying that the use of numbers doesn't prove something right which you have done and condemned at the same time. So I asked this
Which is it? .
To which you replied by answering my question from my point of view (WOW).
You can't have it both ways.
By now you are totally off the reservation and I am doubting your ability to comprehend English. You make doubly sure to really confuse things by adding this:
"The Baha'i Faith has grown from zero adherents to around seven million over the past century and a half, roughly, and is cited by several non-Baha'i sources as the second most widespread religion (despite its small numbers) and the fastest-growing among those religions already established in over 100 countries."
So you appeal to numbers three times and condemn appealing to numbers once and maybe twice. Let me make this so clear that you hopefully can't get confused.

1. Appeal to numbers does in no way prove anything to be true. (It can be used to establish a general suffecient reliability for evidence but never proof)
2. Even if Numbers do prove anything Christianty has vastly higher numbers so there is no reason for you to appeal to numbers at all but yet you continue to do so. Bizarre.
3. Even if numbers matter, strange statistics like the most widespread would still be meaningless.
4. In Conclusions NO NUMBERS. I only posted them to show that even if they did you still lose.

 

InvestigateTruth

Well-Known Member
Do you actually read the posts you respond to? Your Baha i brother Investigate truth" said . He has appealed to numbers many times and so I replied Obviously I was saying that numbers do not determine truth but even if they did Christianity would win. I was trying to illustrate the futility to appealing to numbers.


I NEVER appealed to numbers. Your misunderstanding.
You have said that Baha'i Theology is not accepted by Christions, which I replied "Although many Christians has converted to Baha'i Faith"

I did not use this as a proof, but as a respond to your claim to show that many Christians has accepted Baha'i theology.
 

1robin

Christian/Baptist
I NEVER appealed to numbers. Your misunderstanding.
You have said that Baha'i Theology is not accepted by Christions, which I replied "Although many Christians has converted to Baha'i Faith"

I did not use this as a proof, but as a respond to your claim to show that many Christians has accepted Baha'i theology.
If this is correct you are absolutely right. I missunderstood what you said. The other guy is definately using numbers but at least here it doesn't appear you were. I apologize and withdraw the assertion.

I will add this that what I meant is it is not compatable with Christianity not that some Christians (whom I imagine were superficial ones not born again ones as is usually the truthin these cases) wouldn't adopt it. The issue is contradictory claims of the faith it self not what an individual accepts or denies. If I claimed that satanism is compatable with Christianity that has no effect on whether it actually is or not.
 
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thau

Well-Known Member
The Koran does not perfectly represent the original, Muslim scholars are unable to take the stance that the Bible is corrupted, and the Koran in not more theologically unified then the Bible.

For these reasons, the accusation that the Bible has been corrupted and standards that set the Koran higher must be ignored when comparing both books. They have to be treated minimally as equals in terms of historical accuracy and authenticity.

What difference does that make anyway? We are way beyond the holy books. Both religions can and should be judged by their fruits. And to that, there is no wonder.

I really do not care what so called scholars around here mount for juvenile attacks as reason for disproving it. All they usually do is point to our sins and walk away feeling justified... but still, as lost as ever.
 

InvestigateTruth

Well-Known Member
1. Appeal to numbers does in no way prove anything to be true. (It can be used to establish a general suffecient reliability for evidence but never proof)

I agree.

2. Even if Numbers do prove anything Christianty has vastly higher numbers so there is no reason for you to appeal to numbers at all but yet you continue to do so. Bizarre.


This is arguable. I do not necessarily agree.

As there are reported to be approximately 38,000 Christian denominations
List of Christian denominations - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Nowadays, we hear, every church has its own followers.
So, if you think of Christianity today as a man's body, which the Bible compares, the members of this body are not in hormony. It's like a big Tree, which is scattered into pieces of wood...cannot have much fruits anymore.
But Baha'i faith is in unity. Even in the past, there has been some attampts to creat sects, they did not succeed to collect more than a few people as Baha'i Faith has a Center of Covenant which protects Baha'i Faith from disunity. Something unique that you Cannot find in any previous religions.

But even there are billions of Christians, if you divide that by different denominations, and churches, each could be less than the number of Baha'is.

3. Even if numbers matter, strange statistics like the most widespread would still be meaningless.

I certainly disagree with this.
Because, although it is not a proof, but it is meaningful.
Baha'i faith has grown among different religious background, races, nationalities, etc, which shows, it has the capability of making progress. It has the capability to be accepted by all religious background.



As there are reported to be approximately 38,000 Christian denominations
 
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Oryonder

Active Member
If this is correct you are absolutely right. I missunderstood what you said. The other guy is definately using numbers but at least here it doesn't appear you were. I apologize and withdraw the assertion.

I will add this that what I meant is it is not compatable with Christianity not that some Christians (whom I imagine were superficial ones not born again ones as is usually the truthin these cases) wouldn't adopt it. The issue is contradictory claims of the faith it self not what an individual accepts or denies. If I claimed that satanism is compatable with Christianity that has no effect on whether it actually is or not.

Claiming that non "born again" Christians are superficial has no more effect on whether it this statement is true or not any more than the claim that Satanism is compatable with Christianity.

The "born again" movement has its roots in Montanism which was declared heretical by the early Church.

To make the "absolute" claim that all Christians who are not "born again" are superficial, without providing any evidence is a bit of a slap in the face to Christianity considering that most Christians are not "born again" from a Pentacostal perspective.
 
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1robin

Christian/Baptist
True. And if you claim Christianity is not compatible with Baha'i faith, does it have any effect on whether it actually is or not?
I must not have been clear. If I claim that something that is obviously not compatable with something else (like satanism and Christianity) are compatable, does the claim it's self mean that it is? Of course not. So when you claim that Baha i which is obviously not compatable with Christianity (as I have shown many times) actually is, then like my other example your claim doesn't change the obvious fact that in reality it isn't compatable. For example Baha i claims that two incompatable faiths are both true. Islam and Christianity especially certain core claims. That obvious means Baha i is wrong regardless of what you claim, by philosophy as well as the principle illustrated above.
 

1robin

Christian/Baptist
I agree.



This is arguable. I do not necessarily agree.

As there are reported to be approximately 38,000 Christian denominations
List of Christian denominations - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Nowadays, we hear, every church has its own followers.
So, if you think of Christianity today as a man's body, which the Bible compares, the members of this body are not in hormony. It's like a big Tree, which is scattered into pieces of wood...cannot have much fruits anymore.
Since over 90% of the denominations have a common core doctrine and only differ on matters of astetic preference (music, no music) or other secondary non crucial details but are all united by faith in Christ then your claim is irrelevant. Regardless since several of the individual denominations on their own are vastly larger than all of Baha i then you would still loose if numbers counted.


But Baha'i faith is in unity. Even in the past, there has been some attampts to creat sects, they did not succeed to collect more than a few people as Baha'i Faith has a Center of Covenant which protects Baha'i Faith from disunity. Something unique that you Cannot find in any previous religions.
Baha i seems to have such a pluraistic anything goes character and is so small that unity is hardly an impressive result.

But even there are billions of Christians, if you divide that by different denominations, and churches, each could be less than the number of Baha'is.
The catholics without any other denominations outnumber Baha i by over 80-1 so this won't help you. However as I have said most denominations agree on 95% of the same doctrine so your attempt to seperate them is illogical and unjustified but either way not good for your case.


I certainly disagree with this.
Because, although it is not a proof, but it is meaningful.
Baha'i faith has grown among different religious background, races, nationalities, etc, which shows, it has the capability of making progress. It has the capability to be accepted by all religious background.
Some statistics are useful that one wasn't. If a man at the north pole and another at the south pole had the same religion then that religion would be the widest spread. If a single man from every race on earth believed in the same religion then it would be the most universal religion even though it only had a few hundred members. Who cares? Combing through statistsics until you find one where Baha i is close to the top is a meaningless exercise.
 
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