Knowing God

[Redemptionsong]

This only further exemplifies problem between different religions and amongst the divisions of religions where they all say they ae 'real and true' believers only, and cite.ancient scripture without provenance that what they believe is 'proven.'

I think you've got this wrong. For a start, following Jesus Christ is not a 'religion'. This is because it is not a faith based on law, but on the Spirit of love. Is it man's love? No. It's the love of God in Christ, received by grace.

The experiential proof of Jesus Christ is the Holy Spirit. Jesus Christ came to baptise repentant sinners with His Spirit, and for those who genuinely repent and believe (in Jesus Christ as Saviour), the Holy Spirit becomes a reality.

The scriptures are unbroken [John 10:35], and as such provide evidence based on the unity of truth. To my understanding, the only way to access this truth is through faith in God's Word.

 

[Redemptionsong]

If a person truly knows God, it will be reflected in their personality.
Gods spirit is reflected in those who have put on the 'new personality' which is made according to Gods will

Eph 4:22 You were taught to put away the old personality+ that conforms to your former course of conduct and that is being corrupted according to its deceptive desires.+ 23 And you should continue to be made new in your dominant mental attitude,+ 24 and should put on the new personality+ that was created according to God’s will in true righteousness and loyalty.


Only when the new personality is put on by a christian, will the holy spirit 'indwell' in that person.

I think that you have put 'the cart before the horses'. The 'new personality' only comes about as the result of receiving the promise of a new Spirit. The mind is altered as a result of a deeper change in Spirit. This change is not one that we make in ourselves, but one that God makes in us, hence 'a new creation (creature)'.

I have come to believe that JWs do not experience the baptism in Holy Spirit because their theology rejects such a baptism. This is, firstly, because they deny that Jesus Christ is Lord and God. Secondly, many reject the indwelling of the Holy Spirit because they believe that the gift of Holy Spirit became irrelevant after the time of the apostles. Thirdly, but connected to the second point, JWs follow a teaching based on law, not grace.

Bree, you tell me, what is 'true righteousness'?

 

[shunyadragon]

Have you ever thought who wrote Timothy?

Interesting, By far most people who are Muslims, Jews and Christians do not think they could be wrong.

 

[shunyadragon]

I think you've got this wrong. For a start, following Jesus Christ is not a 'religion'. This is because it is not a faith based on law, but on the Spirit of love. Is it man's love? No. It's the love of God in Christ, received by grace.

The experiential proof of Jesus Christ is the Holy Spirit. Jesus Christ came to baptise repentant sinners with His Spirit, and for those who genuinely repent and believe (in Jesus Christ as Saviour), the Holy Spirit becomes a reality.

The scriptures are unbroken [John 10:35], and as such provide evidence based on the unity of truth. To my understanding, the only way to access this truth is through faith in God's Word.

As with all ancient religions, and your belief is a 'religion; based on the definition in the English language, you mak subjective claims based on ancient scriptures without historical provenance,

 

[Redemptionsong]

As with all ancient religions, and your belief is a 'religion; based on the definition in the English language, you mak subjective claims based on ancient scriptures without historical provenance,

Jesus was a Jew brought up under the law. Do you think following Jesus makes me a Jew also?

 

[firedragon]

Interesting, By far most people who are Muslims, Jews and Christians do not think they could be wrong.

Nice. So do the Bahai's and Atheists and many others. @shunyadragon

 

[shunyadragon]

Nice. So do the Bahai's and Atheists and many others. @shunyadragon

Atheists vary greatly as to the nature of firmness of their belief to agnosticism the most uncertain of belief. Yes hard atheist simply and firmly believes there are no God(s).

Yes, most Baha'is firmly believe in the Baha'i Faith, but they do not believe they are the only religion nor the last, and believe more in a continuum of evolving religion over the history, and mush of what they believe except for very basic beliefs common to all religions is subject to change over time, and do not claim that other religions are absolutely wrong in any sense, nor do they believe non-believers nor converts be should condemned, nor not out of favor with God since God makes the final judgement.

Baha'is also believe in the principle of 'Independent search for truth,' which over time leads to the potential for change in knowledge of God, and the physical nature of our existence. The belief in 'Unity with Diversity' makes it incumbent to more than just tolerate those who believe differently.

My personal view like some other Baha'i is seek the universal consideration of the spiritual and physical nature of humanity, and present this is best reflected in the Baha'i Faith. I am also a philosophical agnostic in reality I as a fallible human do not 'know.'

 

[firedragon]

Atheists vary greatly as to the nature of firmness of their belief to agnosticism the most uncertain of belief.

Everyone varies.

Yes, most Baha'is firmly believe in the Baha'i Faith, but they do not believe they are the only religion nor the last, and believe more in a continuum of evolving religion over the history,

Yes. Thats your belief.

Baha'is also believe in the principle of 'Independent search for truth,

So, who doesnt believe that?

 

[InChrist]

Have you ever thought who wrote Timothy?

Paul wrote the letter to Timothy under the inspiration and direction from the Holy Spirit.

 

[firedragon]

Paul wrote the letter to Timothy under the inspiration and direction from the Holy Spirit.

Well, that's against most of the Christian scholars in the world.

 

[InChrist]

Well, that's against most of the Christian scholars in the world.

I’m not sure which scholars you are referring to, but all biblical scholars I’ve ever read refer to Paul as the writer of the letters to Timothy. As well, they start off saying...

Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ, by the commandment of God our Savior and the Lord Jesus Christ, our hope,
To Timothy, a true son in the faith:
1 Timothy 1:1-2


Summary of the Book of 1 Timothy - Bible Survey | GotQuestions.org

15. 1 Timothy: Introduction, Argument, Outline | Bible.org

 

[firedragon]

I’m not sure which scholars you are referring to, but all biblical scholars I’ve ever read refer to Paul as the writer of the letters to Timothy. As well, they start off saying...

Richard Bauckham, NT Wright, EP Sanders, TC Skeat, Bruce Metzger. Many.

Maybe your sources are evangelical sources. Scholarship has moved beyond that.

 

[InChrist]

Richard Bauckham, NT Wright, EP Sanders, TC Skeat, Bruce Metzger. Many.

Maybe your sources are evangelical sources. Scholarship has moved beyond that.

If you mean scholarship which has moved beyond acknowledging the work of the Holy Spirit in the writing and preserving of Scripture toward an emphasis on the human author, then I don’t consider that to be legitimate biblical scholarship. Too often I think scholars who de-emphasize the Holy Spirit’s inspiration and preservation of the scriptures depart from biblical faith into heresy.
Just my thoughts and perspective, but I’m not interested in getting into an argument with you about this.

 

[firedragon]

If you mean scholarship had moved beyond acknowledging the work of the Holy Spirit in the writing and preserving of Scripture toward an emphasis on the human author, then I don’t consider that to be legitimate biblical scholarship. Too often I think scholars who de-emphasize the Holy Spirit’s inspiration and preservation of the scriptures depart from biblical faith into heresy.
Just my thoughts and perspective, but I’m not interested in getting into an argument with you about this.

I was referring to scholarship. I can see you are not interested in scholarship so I withdraw from that conversation.

Thanks for engaging.

 

[shunyadragon]

Everyone varies.

Not a coherent answer.

Actually many contemporary atheists do not assert absolutely that no God(s) exist, and their view is 'no reason to believe in God(s)

Yes. That's your belief.

Again a dodge and not a coherent response. I acknowledge the relativity of all beliefs including my own, because of fallibility of human nature and the fact that our choices of religion are predominantly inherited beliefs, and highly subjective in nature.

So, who doesnt believe that?

Huh!?!?!?! In terms of the Baha'i human knowledge including religious beliefs are evolving and changing knowledge.. No the majority of believers in ancient religions would not buy into this.[/QUOTE]

 

[shunyadragon]

Well, that's against most of the Christian scholars in the world.

. . . and in Islam most do not agree what the 'true Islam is.'

 

[firedragon]

@shunyadragon

"You said : Huh!?!?!?! In terms of the Baha'i human knowledge including religious beliefs are evolving and changing knowledge.. No the majority of believers in ancient religions would not buy into this."

Thats wrong. I understand that you brought in all religions to promote the Bahai faith, but you should understand religions a bit prior to making this kind of statement.

Do you understand what Akal means in Islam?

 

[firedragon]

. . . and in Islam most do not agree what the 'true Islam is.'

That was about the book of Timothy in the Bible. Its the Bible. SO you are making a false analogy.

 

[rational experiences]

The scriptures teach that the Holy Spirit is central to a person’s adoption as a child of God [Romans 8:15-17].



God is one [Deut. 6:4; Gal. 3:20]

God is (a) Spirit [John 4:24]

They that believe on him [Jesus Christ] receive the Spirit [John 7:39]

He that is joined to the Lord [Jesus Christ] is one spirit [1 Cor. 6:17]

They must worship him [God] in spirit and in truth [John 4:24]



Ephesians 2:18

‘For through him [Jesus Christ] we both [Jew and Gentile] have access by one Spirit [the Holy Spirit] unto the Father.’

John 14:6

‘no man cometh unto the Father, but by me [Jesus Christ]’

Philippians 2:2

‘Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind.’

Ephesians 4:4-6

‘Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.

There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.’



True fellowship, peace, and unity, (we are told) comes through the indwelling Holy Spirit.



Q: Can any person claim to know God if he/she does not know, and follow, Christ through the indwelling Holy Spirit, received by grace?

A human says water in a scientific philosophy saved all spirits of God. Why we are with as God by definition holy life holy water.

So then they taught no I must include ice as ice keeps both water and gas holy as it's not just about my human biology. I'll call it the saviour of two opposing sea sons as balances.

As a human just one human the man human invented by his body his mind presence all human agreed science terms. Why he displaced his mutual ego.

Balances.

So he had to keep updating his own human advice as science is wrong only natural is right.

The day a human says if I didn't exist which is any human self...
science would not be expressed.

Is the day you tell the whole truth nothing but the truth so help me God.

That you man scientist liar explained was the motion of earths heavens cooling as a balanced body.

G the spiral O flow form of moving heated and cooling gases with water of spaces face.

So you said infinity owns the gas. Solids own no infinite as a solid owns no space. Why I can add holes into mass myself.

Hence space is empty.
Infinite space as energy is a gas that encompasses space within a hot dense mass to produce the state the cold gas.

So no infinite existed.

Your owned lying scientific thesis that you change whenever you get enough cult group human support agreed. Why you argue as group agreement humans claim overthrows other human groups.

The cult a group.

Natural family is the real group. Organised meetings were to force your beliefs upon natural life it never needed as we lived spiritually first.

You destroyed natural consciousness so you enforced controlled preaching to try to control behaviour. Science to try to control natural is about science claiming you can order the cosmos..

Is science everywhere when you summarise the history of a human being wrong.

As what you want is for a machine reaction.

You hence want a human to have begun in the cosmos so you can control a human to control out of space is the ludicrous mind themes you use.

 

[shunyadragon]

That was about the book of Timothy in the Bible. Its the Bible. SO you are making a false analogy.

Failure to respond. My response was not in reference to your Timothy, but Islam in general.

. . . and in Islam most do not agree what the 'true Islam is.' . . . and often violently in history between the divisions in Islam.