Knowing God

[muhammad_isa]

They can't all be right, but they can all be wrong.

They could theoretically all be wrong .. but that would mean that your beliefs about religion are wrong too.

 

[KWED]

They could theoretically all be wrong .. but that would mean that your beliefs about religion are wrong too.

No it wouldn't.
My claim is that none of the gods of religion exist.
If every claim that a god exists is wrong, then my claim (that they are all wrong) is right.

 

[muhammad_isa]

No it wouldn't.
My claim is that none of the gods of religion exist..

..so your claim is just as much a belief as anybody else's.
..and I can also tell you that your belief is illogical.

 

[KWED]

..so your claim is just as much a belief as anybody else's.

Not so much a belief as a rational position - ie. I don't accept any extraordinary claims without supporting evidence. I am not believing in anything.

But the point is, if all claims of gods' existences are wrong, my position is therefore necessarily right.

..and I can also tell you that your belief is illogical.

Go ahead. This should be interesting...

 

[Muffled]

In my view, Jesus (a) was a proof of God while he was on earth, in his words "I am the light of the world so long as I am in this world". When he left, Elijah (a) because the proof and light, and the comforter/praised one to come, is Mohammad (s) who too would be an instance of the holy spirit and the truth from God and be a means to God.

Aside from people witnessing Elijah (a), the fact, that Jesus (a) would ascend, would be a proof that Elijah (a) had to return, because there's always a proof, and in case before Jesus (a) it was John the Baptist (a). And so Elijah (a) was hidden because people killed John (a) and sought to kill Jesus (a).

And so all this is context of what the holy spirit is and it's the chosen image of God like Adam (a) and continues from him to the Mahdi (a), the earth is never without a divine connector to God. It's up God to set it like he set Seth (a).

This is beyond clear to me, that Gospels and Torah both prophecy Mohammad (s) but people can play games, just as Sunnis do with Ulil-Amr (a) in 4:59 and make it about secular rulers when the context is divine leadership from God.

The Gospels show God's anointed kings are holy and chosen as a the path to God, and so corrects the previous corruptions in scripture that show Prophets to be huge sinners.

Gospels with exception of divorce and a few things here and there, are divine and from God to me. God revealed them through Jesus (a) to each disciple, just as Quran has repeated facts, so do the Gospels. Some of it is lost, some of it corrupted, but you can tell most of it is from God.

The disciples all reveal their particular one but how they compliment each other is a sign it's from God, all of them.

I do not believe any of that is true.

I believe that one can know about God through the Qu'ran but one can't know God personally other than by the Paraclete unless one gets extremely fortunate.

I believe one may not pick and choose what one thinks is corrupted. There has to be solid evidence of it. Even the ending of Mark which appears suspect may be OK and there is no solid proof that it isn't.

 

[Muffled]

Let’s say my father calls me up after a few decades somehow because my maternal grandparents are dead and can’t feed him our number, and offers to adopt me if I say I love him. Not only hasn’t he earned it but I have been his daughter the entire time. He only doesn’t treat me like one because he doesn’t want me. Should I accept that?

I believe a father is usually better than none. My granddaughter got to know her father in her pre-teens but it was not as great an experience as she might have hoped for but it does fill up that hole in her life.

 

[Muffled]

God created us, we either try to force him to accept who've become even if in reality he can't accept it or we choose to accept him and change ourselves for his sake. I choose the latter, though, I can see the want to be accepted for whatever choice we have chosen.

I believe you have it wrong. God wants us to change for our sake.

 

[Link]

I believe you have it wrong. God wants us to change for our sake.

Doing it for the sake of God is doing it for our benefit. Worshiping God yields no benefits to God, it's for our benefit so I agree. He gives us holy sustenance and power when we worship him, we don't give him anything.

 

[Hermit Philosopher]

Can any person claim to know God if he/she does not know, and follow, Christ through the indwelling Holy Spirit, received by grace?

Yes. And No.

Yes; because they may not use Christian terms like God, Holy Spirit/Ghost, Christ, etc (…they may call it X Y Z; terms are irrelevant - God “speaks” in concepts, not language), but may absolutely be describing what Christians mean when they use their Christian terms anyhow.

No; because whatever the terms used to describe those states, the states themselves are the states we go through on our path to knowing God/X.


Humbly
Hermit

 

[Muffled]

Doing it for the sake of God is doing it for our benefit. Worshiping God yields no benefits to God, it's for our benefit so I agree. He gives us holy sustenance and power when we worship him, we don't give him anything.

I believe the Paraclete (which Islam has not recognized) keeps me from sin and that is a great blessing.

 

[Link]

I believe the Paraclete (which Islam has not recognized) keeps me from sin and that is a great blessing.

Samuel (a) means name of God. Face of God, name of God, is the position of the holy spirit. Jesus (a) said he was the light of the world so long as he was in this world. Elijah (a) took this position when he ascended to heaven, and Mohammad (s) took the position of holy spirit after Elijah (a) who held it till Mohammad (s) was raised as Prophet and Messenger.

To me the position of the holy spirit is the position of the name of God, it's always occupied by a holy exalted leader appointed by God as the means to him and he is the light of the world just as Jesus said he was so long as he was in this world.

 

[Link]

I do not believe any of that is true.

I believe that one can know about God through the Qu'ran but one can't know God personally other than by the Paraclete unless one gets extremely fortunate.

I believe one may not pick and choose what one thinks is corrupted. There has to be solid evidence of it. Even the ending of Mark which appears suspect may be OK and there is no solid proof that it isn't.

Trinity is invented to make ambiguous the concept of holy spirit and Paraclete.

To me, what is not corrupted in the Torah emphasizes on the chosen ones and their holy righteous nature, despite the current version attributing many (including Solomon) as turning evil, and tries to make Moses greater then Aaron and his holy family and tries to disconnect David and his line from Aaron, the truth remains clear in there if you know it's corrupted.

The Quran emphasizes not one chosen Messenger is more important in terms of belief then another, and so we don't distinguish the importance of Moses and belief in him over that over Aaron. Aaron and Moses are of the same blessed tree of light established by God and that tree after Moses foundational root, has Twelve Branches ending with Jesus (a) as the Twelfth.


And the Gospels if you are aware, corrects the Torah, and says that all God's anointed kings are holy and their authority is not simply of this world, but pertains to the next world and rules by light all of creation.

John is predecessor of Jesus in occupying position of holy spirit and Elijah returned because someone has to occupy it when Jesus ascends and Mohammad (s) is yet to be born.