1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Featured Knock out argument for God's existence (from his vision)

Discussion in 'Theism' started by Link, Jan 13, 2020.

  1. Link

    Link Active Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2019
    Messages:
    673
    Ratings:
    +208
    Religion:
    Twelver seeker


    That's me. If you have any questions for clarifications let me know.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • Useful Useful x 1
  2. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2017
    Messages:
    31,786
    Ratings:
    +18,504
    Religion:
    Atheist
    A simple refutation:

    "God can't exist because of Eric The God-Eating Magic Penguin. Since Eric is God-Eating by definition, he has no choice but to eat God. So, if God exists, He automatically ceases to exist as a result of being eaten. Unless you can prove that Eric doesn't exist, God doesn't exist. Even if you can prove that Eric doesn't exist, that same proof will also be applicable to God. There are only two possibilities - either you can prove that Eric doesn't exist or you can't - in both cases it logically follows that God doesn't exist."
     
    • Winner Winner x 11
    • Creative Creative x 4
    • Optimistic Optimistic x 1
  3. Audie

    Audie Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2018
    Messages:
    14,549
    Ratings:
    +7,204
    Religion:
    None
    Funny the different ways you can read
    "KNOCK OUT ARGUMENT FOR GOD"
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Funny Funny x 2
    • Informative Informative x 1
  4. dybmh

    dybmh Kosher-Style Clown
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2019
    Messages:
    5,232
    Ratings:
    +3,032
    Religion:
    Helping, Making, and Doing
    The proof you are proposing is: if absolute truth exists, then G-d exists? if a person has a unique identity, and/or a unique identity of others, and/or a unique value assigned to someone's actions, then G-d exists?
     
  5. Link

    Link Active Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2019
    Messages:
    673
    Ratings:
    +208
    Religion:
    Twelver seeker
    It’s more on the lines:

    Without God’s vision we would not have an exact value.
    Without an exact value we would be an illusion.
    We aren’t an illusion.

    Therefore God exists.
     
  6. Mestemia

    Mestemia Advocatus Diaboli
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2005
    Messages:
    43,564
    Ratings:
    +8,035
    Does this mean if god goes blind we cease to exist, or just become illusions?
    And whose illusions would we become, ours or gods?
     
    • Like Like x 2
  7. dybmh

    dybmh Kosher-Style Clown
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2019
    Messages:
    5,232
    Ratings:
    +3,032
    Religion:
    Helping, Making, and Doing
    I kind of see where you're going with this. I see it a little differently, though. I think part of being human is finite ( has an exact value ), but other parts are infinite and don't have an exact value.

    The part that is finite, that's the animal part. The part that is infinite, that's the divine part.

    The fact that this infinite part exists, is a reason to believe in G-d. But I don't see it as proof or provable.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  8. Link

    Link Active Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2019
    Messages:
    673
    Ratings:
    +208
    Religion:
    Twelver seeker
    YEs if God doesn’t see us exactly as we are nothing else will and hence we would be illusions and not exist.
     
  9. Link

    Link Active Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2019
    Messages:
    673
    Ratings:
    +208
    Religion:
    Twelver seeker
    Nothing can judge and assign us value but perfect loving vision from God that sees our actions with precision. It’s his vision that gives things there precision and reality.
     
  10. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2017
    Messages:
    31,786
    Ratings:
    +18,504
    Religion:
    Atheist
    Pretty much nonsense. That is why Eric refutes your claim. I used a very bad argument against God to refute a very poor argument for God.
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  11. Link

    Link Active Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2019
    Messages:
    673
    Ratings:
    +208
    Religion:
    Twelver seeker
    We always estimate or guess who we are knowing there is an exact value to who we are. That exact reality of who we are can’t be separated from God’s judgement.
     
  12. dybmh

    dybmh Kosher-Style Clown
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2019
    Messages:
    5,232
    Ratings:
    +3,032
    Religion:
    Helping, Making, and Doing
    It's an interesting idea, but, I don't know if it's proof.

    There's interesting quantum mechanics that can be used to define this precision without G-d. It's called coherence. The precision comes from probability.

    From a theological perspective, though, it's rather compelling. From a Jewish perspective, instead of vision, the precision in reality comes from G-d's speech.
     
  13. Link

    Link Active Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2019
    Messages:
    673
    Ratings:
    +208
    Religion:
    Twelver seeker
    God’s speech and him hearing it accurately and emitting and seeing the light he emitting is a unified action. I’m talking about the fact if we aren’t properly defined by God’s judgment we aren’t anywhere. We are an illusion With no way to guess or get guided to who we are.
     
  14. Audie

    Audie Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2018
    Messages:
    14,549
    Ratings:
    +7,204
    Religion:
    None
    The fact?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  15. Mestemia

    Mestemia Advocatus Diaboli
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2005
    Messages:
    43,564
    Ratings:
    +8,035
    Wow.
    Way to completely ignore the post you are replying to...

    Does this trick work on your god?
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  16. Mestemia

    Mestemia Advocatus Diaboli
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2005
    Messages:
    43,564
    Ratings:
    +8,035
    Proof?
    Hells bells, outside the choir it isn't even evidence
     
    • Winner Winner x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  17. Audie

    Audie Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2018
    Messages:
    14,549
    Ratings:
    +7,204
    Religion:
    None
    Spirits generally are absurdly easy to
    trick, or frighten.
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
    • Optimistic Optimistic x 1
  18. Link

    Link Active Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2019
    Messages:
    673
    Ratings:
    +208
    Religion:
    Twelver seeker
    Observing how we are linked to God and depend on Him will produce many proofs and reminders of God like the one I just provided.
     
  19. Thief

    Thief Rogue Theologian

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2009
    Messages:
    42,533
    Ratings:
    +3,571
    proof?.....as if God is required to prove Himself to us?

    I think it's the other way around
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • Useful Useful x 1
  20. Thief

    Thief Rogue Theologian

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2009
    Messages:
    42,533
    Ratings:
    +3,571
    it won't

    am I my brother's keeper?
     
Loading...