Kitab-i-Iqan was not a Direct Converse from/by G-d. Was it?

[TransmutingSoul]

Friend! What is its use if one cannot not study all that stuff even in a year's time with Convenience. Has one studied it all, please?
It only suggests that as a talkative person talks things having no substance so Bahaullah's writings have no substance and are not needed by the world. Right, please?

Regards

Our entire life is a lesson, is there any use to life, is there any point to it?

I will leave it to you as to if the world needs what Baha'u'llah has given.

Regards

 

[oldbadger]

That is not what my reply said - There are official extracts published, but the Bayan, in full, remains only in its original writings.

We know!
And folks really do need to decide why Bahai has withheld so much from the World for so long.
Bahai has had one and a half centuries to translate ALL the Babi and Bahai documents for full disclosure in all the main World languages, and for some reason it hasn't.
Your 'official extracts' point really does show just how 'dark' an issue this is.

What I posted was translations that are not approved as official, anyone is free to try to translate, a few do as to discredit the Faith, a few do to bring out the intent of the Bayan.

A faith that redacts whole lumps of its literature sure does need to be scrutinised with deep reserve and mistrust, imo. And to try and discredit folks who do show the world as many translations as possible can be viewed with even more mistrust.
'We won't show all our prophet's writings but we'll try and defame any who do try' is as bad a characteristic as it looks, imo.

Much like any Holy book, it will depend upon ones motive is, as what one chooses to post and why.

Oh yes! Yes! And what exactly is Bahai's motive in failing to publish the lot as original, and with objective translations, eh?
It's the usual Bahai 'doublethink', I reckon.

The intent of the Bayan was to awaken the world to the coming of the 'One God Would Make Manifest', it had no ill intent but for the world to embrace in Love and Unity, the Messiah they all expect, in one way or another.

That is plain an simple and I in no way wish to change how you see it, it is your journey, your heart, your path to justice. Rest assured I will always be there to help no matter what is your view, no matter what you may wish to do to any Baha'i and no matter what happens in this world, need help, we are there, in your community teaching virtues and unity.

Regards Tony

Please don't tell us what the Bayan is, or not. The ayan is what it shows itself to be, and the verses I have quoted are redacted to hisde its true nature, methinks.

 

[oldbadger]

Firstly there is 2 x Bayan - One in Persian and One in Arabic.

Fine. So publish them both, unredacted, and objective translators can go to work.

I see the answer is simple, the Bayan remained unfinished as it was subject to the approval of the 'Him Whom God Shall Make Manifest', who was to be Baha'u'llah. It was up to Baha'u'llah to take of the Bayan what was going to be implemented in the future and to also complete the Bayan. I have seen a Bahai post who does read Arabic an Persian say; "One thing I realized is those untranslated things belong to the Baha'is of the future. The originals are for the Universal House of Justice as well, not for us."

I don't think that you realise what you are writing.
The above is EXACTLY why folks like me call out to the World about those writings. Out of the blue in a dark future Bahai World, people could be waking up to the most dreadful orders from Bahai as tracts from the writings are published.
Have you ever read 1984? You should.

"If one were to list all that the Bayan has to say concerning Him Whom God Shall Make Manifest, one would, without exaggeration, have to refer to at least two thirds of the Persian and Arabic Bayans."

That is from - The Báb's Bayan

Regards Tony

You don't seem to realise it, but you've shown, in one post, just how dark the future could be in a Bahai World.
It's like telling the World to put Bahai in power one day but without knowing what the nature of that power would be.

 

[oldbadger]

That is why you will find unauthorized translations, hell bent offering a different intent, that the Bayan was not in any way conveying.

It is our choice, however we wish to see it, so I am now content to know that you freely have those choices, without me thinking bad about it, but it is Just and right for me to point that obvious intent out.

A message of Love, Unity and Justice can not have hate, that is what happened to the Quran, if we are progressive we will not let that happen to what the Bab and Baha'u'llah have given us.

I see the strong part of any revealed Word of God, is a forewarning of what we will do, which is not the cause. The cause offers nothing but Love, Unity and Justice, all that requires submission. We are yet to learn true submission and many have nil desire to learn.

Regards Tony

Oh please, Tony, if there was Love, Unity and Justice in the Bahai system then it would be an open book for all to see and read in their own languages, translated by detached professionals. It's not and I don't think it ever will be.

Follow it if you will, but at least let others see points such as I am making.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Oh please, Tony, if there was Love, Unity and Justice in the Bahai system then it would be an open book for all to see and read in their own languages, translated by detached professionals. It's not and I don't think it ever will be.

Follow it if you will, but at least let others see points such as I am making.

It is your choice OB and it always will be. All the best in life and always find happy.

I know that Baha'i hides not a thing, except there is always things that according to law, justice and pure decency, that can not and will not be disclosed.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

You don't seem to realise it, but you've shown, in one post, just how dark the future could be in a Bahai World.
It's like telling the World to put Bahai in power one day but without knowing what the nature of that power would be.

It is you seeing the darkness, I see only light.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Please don't tell us what the Bayan is, or not. The Bayan is what it shows itself to be, and the verses I have quoted are redacted to hisde its true nature, methinks.

You are free to think that. What you can not produce is an Authored translation and as such you can source translations that offer interpretation far from the intent of that which the Bab offered, or you are also free to pull from the links I have given to quotes from the Bayan, they were at least an attempt of conveying the Message contained within the Bayan.

Regards Tony

 

[oldbadger]

It is you seeing the darkness, I see only light.

Regards Tony

You can be sure of that, Tony.

 

[oldbadger]

You are free to think that. What you can not produce is an Authored translation and as such you can source translations that offer interpretation far from the intent of that which the Bab offered, or you are also free to pull from the links I have given to quotes from the Bayan, they were at least an attempt of conveying the Message contained within the Bayan.

Regards Tony

No, no, Tony.
I see the translations of outsiders to be a clear indication of just how much Baha'i has concealed the true nature of both Babism and Baha'i.

 

[Vinayaka]

No, no, Tony.
I see the translations of outsiders to be a clear indication of just how much Baha'i has concealed the true nature of both Babism and Baha'i.

I see two sides pointing fingers, with neither willing to drop the finger pointing. They each say the same things about the other, like some crazy mirror situation. Such is the way of feuds. Just glad I had the good karma not to be in it.

No doubt there is concealment. I just have to go to that Baha'i community in that ghost town in Saskatchewan and try to talk to the fence posts there. If those fence posts only knew.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

You can be sure of that, Tony.

100% So OB, that is why I see the world Is now finding that Unity.

The decay of the old world order obvious as the noon day sun. Lies have become a normal way of life, deceitful minds rule.
Now, nothing short of a major convulsion will change this course of mind.

Meanwhile I see a new world order being built by the silent masses, those sick of the lies and deceitful waring ways, but do not know where to turn to implement the overall change.

Some ride ahead OB, hang on and pray that the Love and Unity given by Baha'u'llah does win the day, quite a few of us will not be here to see it unfold, but the generations to come will be amazed why we did not embrace it.

All the best and I wish you well and safe.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

No, no, Tony.
I see the translations of outsiders to be a clear indication of just how much Baha'i has concealed the true nature of both Babism and Baha'i.

Then by that method in all logic, you would have taken the side of the Pharisees and backed their stance against Jesus the Christ. In fact, it is the stance of all those that appose God's Messengers.

It is a dangerous spiritual game to play OB, either one looks for good where good is to be found, or one apposes good.

The Bible offers "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." The proof is in the pudding, not in the words of those that have not tried it.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I see two sides pointing fingers, with neither willing to drop the finger pointing. They each say the same things about the other, like some crazy mirror situation. Such is the way of feuds. Just glad I had the good karma not to be in it.

No doubt there is concealment. I just have to go to that Baha'i community in that ghost town in Saskatchewan and try to talk to the fence posts there. If those fence posts only knew.

That is this world, a world of Right and Wrong and all that is between. A world of Light and Darkness and the shades in between. A world of Love and hate with all the feelings between.

It becomes our choice to be light, or to be darkness, or to be anything between.

Regards Tony

 

[Vinayaka]

It becomes our choice to be light, or to be darkness, or to be anything between.

People make poor choices, not because they want to, but because they don't have the intellectual, emotional, or social skills to discern what is the best and most logical option. Wisdom is often more there in retrospect, and by then it can be way too late, the damage already done.

Very few folks aren't doing the very best they are capable of.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

People make poor choices, not because they want to, but because they don't have the intellectual, emotional, or social skills to discern what is the best and most logical option. Wisdom is often more there in retrospect, and bu then it can be way too late, the damage already done.

Very few folks aren't doing the very best they are capable of.

I can agree.

I wish all people the right to good education in a nature and nurture, that will allow for their full potential to become manifest.

Regards Tony

 

[oldbadger]

I see two sides pointing fingers, with neither willing to drop the finger pointing. They each say the same things about the other, like some crazy mirror situation. Such is the way of feuds. Just glad I had the good karma not to be in it.

Fair enough.
You are right about that.

No doubt there is concealment. I just have to go to that Baha'i community in that ghost town in Saskatchewan and try to talk to the fence posts there. If those fence posts only knew.

And I just have to go to the local cemeteries and visit the graves of the last LSA in this district, as I do every few months when I tend to my late wife's memorial stone. She was an LSA member as well. They are no more.

 

[oldbadger]

Then by that method in all logic, you would have taken the side of the Pharisees and backed their stance against Jesus the Christ. In fact, it is the stance of all those that appose God's Messengers.

Wrong, and wrong again.
It was the Levite Temple priesthood that was so greedy, corrupt and disloyal. Apostlre John got that so wrong. And my heart would be with the Baptist and Yeshua BarYosef.

It is a dangerous spiritual game to play OB, either one looks for good where good is to be found, or one apposes good.

No spirits necessary, Tony.......... Bahai is not good.

The Bible offers "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." The proof is in the pudding, not in the words of those that have not tried it.

Regards Tony

Well....... I think my points are well proven, Tony..., so.....

 

[Vinayaka]

Fair enough.
You are right about that.


And I just have to go to the local cemeteries and visit the graves of the last LSA in this district, as I do every few months when I tend to my late wife's memorial stone. She was an LSA member as well. They are no more.

I've always tried to remain officially neutral, but of course that's a challenge given one side demonstrates reasons to not believe.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Well....... I think my points are well proven, Tony..., so.....

To you, yes and I am happy and content to let you choose to see it that way.

Regards Tony

 

[oldbadger]

I've always tried to remain officially neutral, but of course that's a challenge given one side demonstrates reasons to not believe.

No reasonable debater would expect less than an objective approach, but I've researched this stuff for too long to pretend that I don't have a strong opinion over my discoveries.

And see how, when backed up by reasonable debate, a Bahai mind can decide that reasonable debate is coming from a person 'like the Pharisees'. ..... and in a Bahai World that could be how Bahais cope with any of their government's outrages against objectors.