Killing in War - Ok or Not?

[LuisDantas]

Murder is the deliberate and unjustified killing of an another human being. A combatant taking the life of an enemy combatant in the lawful exercise of his sworn duty is acting justifiably, therefore it's not murder. I'm not saying war itself is a morally good thing and that the lives lost aren't tragic.

Sorry, I am having none of it. War is no justification for murder, and no word-juggling will change that.

 

[moorea944]

Murder is the deliberate and unjustified killing of an another human being. A combatant taking the life of an enemy combatant in the lawful exercise of his sworn duty is acting justifiably, therefore it's not murder. I'm not saying war itself is a morally good thing and that the lives lost aren't tragic.

I dont think that we should be going to war at all. God says that we should be separate from this world and do not get involved in it. And should we fight for our country? God says no, we should be as pilgrims and sojourners in this world. God has promised us something better to come.

 

[Glaurung]

Sorry, I am having none of it. War is no justification for murder, and no word-juggling will change that.

What you will have or not is none of my concern.

 

[moorea944]

I dont think that we should be going to war at all. God says that we should be separate from this world and do not get involved in it. And should we fight for our country? God says no, we should be as pilgrims and sojourners in this world. God has promised us something better to come.

The other thing is that we can try to justify everything to ourselves to think everythings that we do is right. We also have to remember that God is not in our world, WE are in His world. We can live our lives one of two ways. Our way or God's way. God's way is peace, love and love thy neighbor. How can we justify picking up a weapon and shooting someone. That is not God's way

 

[Robert Vincelette]

That depends greatly on who is waging war and why.

Only if the killing is a legitimate last resort act of self-defense and/or defense of someone innocent. In that case, the aggressor chose the rules that allow killing and deserves to live by those rules and their consequences if, by proper fortune, he/she loses.

 

[Glaurung]

I dont think that we should be going to war at all. God says that we should be separate from this world and do not get involved in it.

A Christian should be very active in the world. Doing his best to live virtuously, doing good works and spreading the Gospel cannot be done by someone separate from the world. God did not put us here to sit around. What we are to try and not do is to lose sight of the spiritual reality beyond this world. Attempting to find fulfilment in transient things is spiritually self-defeating, because we were made to enjoy something much greater than this world.

Some are called to a life of contemplation and prayer, but even monks must still work to maintain themselves.

God's way is peace, love and love thy neighbor. How can we justify picking up a weapon and shooting someone. That is not God's way

Because sometimes reality is harsh, and violence is a means to defend yourself and others from even greater evil. Would it have been moral to allow Hitler to be unopposed to annex Poland? It doesn't matter how many die so long as you live in peace?

 

[Servant_of_the_One1]

Very seriously indeed. I become very incensed about this subject rather easily, trust me.




Probably not. I don't much think of the Bible. I'm honestly wondering what you meant here.




Yes. Just like sometimes there is no space for honor, dignity, or even for hope of survival.

All of those unfortunate situations must of course be avoided.

War is inherently dishonorable, and there is no such thing as a honorable war killing.

I disagree with you. There is honor in war.

Thats why there is martyrdom through war. There are many types of martyrdom such as drowning, but the best is defending Allah's religion and being killed for that.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

A combatant taking the life of an enemy combatant in the lawful exercise of his sworn duty is acting justifiably, therefore it's not murder.

It's not murder legally, that's true. But it's still clearly killing, taking a life.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

There is honor in war.

The only honour I can see is defending the helpless. I don't see any honour for soldiers invading another country, for example.

 

[Reza02]

I dont think that we should be going to war at all. God says that we should be separate from this world and do not get involved in it. And should we fight for our country? God says no, we should be as pilgrims and sojourners in this world. God has promised us something better to come.

Really?
So why you are killing Palestinian childs?

 

[Servant_of_the_One1]

The only honour I can see is defending the helpless. I don't see any honour for soldiers invading another country, for example.

I agree, there is no honour in invading other countries. But humans are same. Thats why Roman Empire was great, and so too Persian Empire. They invaded the lands of others, dominated it.

We could say today America invaded countries, dominate great parts of Europe and Middle East.

 

[Reza02]

The only honour I can see is defending the helpless. I don't see any honour for soldiers invading another country.

Yes, you are right.
It is no reason for invasion in this age but if someone attacked you , you must defend your self and if someone needs help to defence him self you must help him

 

[Glaurung]

It's not murder legally, that's true. But it's still clearly killing, taking a life.

Clearly. But murder and taking life are not one in the same thing, which was my point. Catholic teaching is that murder is always a grave sin, but taking life is not always in all circumstances murder (even if always horrible).

I understand the appeal of pacifism, but I disagree with it for a few reasons.

 

[bravoandi]

Thou shalt not kill means thou shalt not murder. In my year in combat, I killed many people who were trying to kill me and my friends. I took no joy in it, but I do not regret it. What I regret is the circumstance that made me go to war. Perhaps what we should be discussing is what constitutes a just war.

 

[kepha31]

Really?
So why you are killing Palestinian childs?

Why do Palestinians put their rocket launchers on top of schools and hospitals?

Thou shalt not kill means thou shalt not murder. In my year in combat, I killed many people who were trying to kill me and my friends. I took no joy in it, but I do not regret it. What I regret is the circumstance that made me go to war. Perhaps what we should be discussing is what constitutes a just war.

Just war has been defined:

The strict conditions for legitimate defense by military force require rigorous consideration. The gravity of such a decision makes it subject to rigorous conditions of moral legitimacy. At one and the same time:​

• • the damage inflicted by the aggressor on the nation or community of nations must be lasting, grave, and certain;
  • all other means of putting an end to it must have been shown to be impractical or ineffective;
  • there must be serious prospects of success;
  • the use of arms must not produce evils and disorders graver than the evil to be eliminated. The power of modern means of destruction weighs very heavily in evaluating this condition.

These are the traditional elements enumerated in what is called the "just war" doctrine. The evaluation of these conditions for moral legitimacy belongs to the prudential judgment of those who have responsibility for the common good. CCC 2309​

Source and elaboration is here: Just War Doctrine | Catholic Answers
full text of CCC 2309 is found here: Catechism of the Catholic Church - The fifth commandment

Pope: war must not be waged in the name of God

Final note: very few wars have met the criteria above.

 

[Valjean]

I disagree with you. There is honor in war.

Thats why there is martyrdom through war. There are many types of martyrdom such as drowning, but the best is defending Allah's religion and being killed for that.

How does killing people defend Islam, and why does Islam need to be defended?
The Quran says people are free to believe or not believe -- their choice. There should be no force in religion.
If you want to spread a belief or lifestyle, best do it by example. People will imitate what they see to be useful or successful. No force required.

 

[Servant_of_the_One1]

How does killing people defend Islam, and why does Islam need to be defended?
The Quran says people are free to believe or not believe -- their choice. There should be no force in religion.
If you want to spread a belief or lifestyle, best do it by example. People will imitate what they see to be useful or successful. No force required.

U misunderstood me.

I mean when the religion and the islamic country is attacked through invasion.
I mean even non-muslims believe in selfdefence.

 

[CMike]

Those that go to war for their country and kill others.

Is that OK in the eyes of your religion?

Can they be forgiven? Is it an automatic pass because it is war? Etc.

There is nothing to be forgiven for.

 

[Revoltingest]

There is nothing to be forgiven for.

Aye. I haven't fought in any wars (cowardly draft dodger, you know), but I have worked on weapon systems. And I have pride in my contributions to make our weapons more effective, ie, deadly. This isn't a lust for killing, but rather a desire for a strong defense. To kill people & break things is a means to an end.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Only if the killing is a legitimate last resort act of self-defense and/or defense of someone innocent.

1. Whether or not an act represents a legitimate last resort is often at the very least debatable.
2. There are cases where killing arguably mitigates death and suffering.