Killing in War - Ok or Not?

[the_sign_of_TSOMIH]

So, are you saying that taking a stand on violence and bloodshed as a follower of Christ is absurd? Absurd to whom?

No. But just because a priest has his doubts, it isn't a license to condemn him and many others.

 

[Sleeppy]

you have presented all manner of impressive mental gymnastics in order to protect your box.

I, however, have presented my point.
Your ignoring the point in order to protect your box is your problem, not mine.

You've presented baseless assertions, and insults. No method, no logic, no proof.

 

[JayJayDee]

What Christ actually taught concerning what you are trying to say here, at best, is that such scandals do come into the world. Christ said, "It must needs be that scandals come into the world, but woe to him by whom that scandal cometh." Whether it was one party or another will be made manifest for prophecy also has it, "The wicked shall prove wicked" and "The wise shall shine like the stars of heaven". We, and here again, at best, can only hear the Word of God and keep it.

And what happens when the church itself hears the word of God and not only ignores it, but tells its members to break the laws of God to accommodate the unchristian commands of men? This was not a few isolated priests on one side of a conflict...it was the same church itself supporting the killing of their own brothers on both sides of a war.

"20 If any one says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen, cannot love God whom he has not seen. 21 And this commandment we have from him, that he who loves God should love his brother also." (1 John 4:20, 21 RSVCE)

Woe indeed 'to the one through whom the scandal comes'
Scandal upon scandal.....

Any decision and/or choices that come our way we then know that they have come from the One Who sent Jesus, the Word, into the world.

You mean the one who said "thou shalt not kill"?
Are you telling me that God instructed these ones to deliberately break his law and thumb their noses at the teachings of the one he sent into the world? Really?

How many Catholics were in the death camps for refusing to heil Hitler? There were thousands of Jehovah's Witnesses, many of whom were probably tortured and executed by members of your church.

Christ said there would be signs in the heavens and the earth, yet you scoff that one is occurring in your midst.

I don't recall scoffing at Bible prophesy...what I scoff at is those who were instructed to be "no part of this world", claiming that their breaking of God's law is a fulfillment of prophesy.

Christ said that the gates of hell would not prevail against His Church. You say otherwise.

Please tell me what you believe "the gates of hell" to mean?

Your problem is one of unity. You don't recognize One God, One Faith, One Religion, nor One Church. You then use the term 'churches' and proceed to throw out the baby with the bath water.

There is no more unified brotherhood on earth than Jehovah's Witnesses. We have confidence that the next burglar to break into our houses is not going to be a JW. That the one dropping bombs on our brothers in another nation won't be either....can you guarantee that they won't be Catholic?

"Churches" is another term for "Christendom" which came into existence with the declaration of Roman Catholicism as the state religion of the Roman Empire. Pagan Rome and its Emperor were never Christian to begin with, and the "Christianity" that was introduced is one Christ would never have recognized.
They apostatized as Jesus foretold, and introduced all manner of false beliefs and practices. They turned the son of God into Almighty God himself and venerated his mother by adopting mother worship symbols and also incorporating sun worship which the church never really stamped out in Rome. It is still as visible today as it was back then.

When the Protestant Reformation took place, the reformers foolishly took a lot of Catholic doctrine with them, then they broke up the church even further when people started to follow the persuasive teachings of men. Any wonder Jesus will reject the "many" who claim him as their Lord on judgment day. He has never known them. (Matt 7:21-23)

 

[the_sign_of_TSOMIH]

Would Christ want the sacraments given to murderers?

Christ said it is the sick who need a physician, not the well.

Human wars are seldom fought for the common good of anyone.

Denying a heaven sent chastisement is how you arrive at your whining questions of disbelief.

As to your gender, "Male AND female he created them."

 

[McBell]

You've presented baseless assertions, and insults. No method, no logic, no proof.

Again, Your ignoring the point in order to protect your box is your problem, not mine.

 

[the_sign_of_TSOMIH]

You don't have to like him...

Jesus attests otherwise : the 'Golden Rule' = the two greatest commandments :

1) Thou shalt love the Lord, your God, with your whole heart, mind, soul, and strength.

2) Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.

 

[the_sign_of_TSOMIH]

You do not know JayJayDee personally. How can you make this claim that there is no goodness within her?

But I know what she wrote. Anyone who will not accept that God is the cause of all things and efforts to put forth something to the contrary is in service to the devil who revels in envy.

 

[the_sign_of_TSOMIH]

And what happens when the church itself hears the word of God and not only ignores it, but tells its members to break the laws of God to accommodate the unchristian commands of men?

This has been your premise all along. But you have given no proof of your mythological basis that the Church has actually done this save for some Catholic bashing websites. You have tried to establish that silence means direct command at an interpretation of your own choosing. Such fantasies might be aroused in your imagination from the graphic artwork of Watchtower or the like, but there is a real world and a real Church. Christ breathes His Own Life into His Church, and It is without blemish. Consider that for a moment before you put another nickel in the hate machine.

 

[Kolibri]

But I know what she wrote. Anyone who will not accept that God is the cause of all things and efforts to put forth something to the contrary is in service to the devil who revels in envy.

I am confused here. Are you saying that God created all the violence and misery and suffering in the world? Because if you are I would say that is not really knowing the God of justice. Or are you saying he created all matter and organized the sun, moon and starts and arranged the ecosystem that call our home, including the perfect template our bodies would have been fashioned after if Adam did not smudge his own reproductive DNA?

 

[the_sign_of_TSOMIH]

How many Catholics were in the death camps for refusing to heil Hitler?

I have two uncles who went to such places in an effort to stop him, both Catholics.

There were thousands of Jehovah's Witnesses, many of whom were probably tortured and executed by members of your church.

Probably? Definitely not.

Here again, so much for your flights of hateful fancy.

 

[idav]

For consistencies sake, intentionally stopping the life of a being is not necessarily a good thing, in general. Doesn't really matter the reason but there is always a balance of course an ebb and flow, but snatching a life is not going with the flow. Other than that nature does what it has to and is therfore not necessarily bad either. War is the power struggle from nature exemplified in huge extremes. I can't avoid the power struggle itself but work to avoid the extreme beyond necessity.

 

[the_sign_of_TSOMIH]

I don't recall scoffing at Bible prophesy...

Once again, the word prophesy is the verb form, prophecy is the noun form. Now, in English, would you care to rephrase your 'question' in the form of a question?

 

[the_sign_of_TSOMIH]

Please tell me what you believe "the gates of hell" to mean?

The question would be better asked, what did Christ mean?

When Jesus asked, "Who do you say I am?", Simon, who is the first disciple-called Andrew's younger brother, said, "Thou art the Christ, the Son of the Living God". Christ replied, "Blessed art thou Simon bar Jonah (Simon, son of John), for flesh and blood has not revealed that to you, but My Father Who is in Heaven. Thou shalt be called Cephas (Greek for "rock", Peter) and upon this Rock I will build My Church. I will give unto you the keys of the kingdom of Heaven and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it."

The parable of the sheep and goats describes well that God has prepared a place from the foundation of the world special for the devil and his angels, and all those who would hate even the least of Christ's brothers. If that place were to gain hold in our reality, it could be said that the gates of hell are prevailing against us. Christ assured us, though, that it would be otherwise.

As prophecy has it that Christ's Kingdom shall be without end, such a basis as this should not be treated lightly.

 

[the_sign_of_TSOMIH]

Are you saying that God created all the violence and misery and suffering in the world?

When we say in the Creed that God the Father is the Maker of all things, visible and invisible, it means JUST that.

 

[Kolibri]

When we say in the Creed that God the Father is the Maker of all things, visible and invisible, it means JUST that.

So, God made the Nazi concentration camps. God made the hygiene so bad in the Middle Ages that the Black Plague ravaged Europe. God made the atomic bombs dropped in Japan.

We really need to examine the whole of the Bible and get a broader view of what is said. I really do not like your God - if the above line is what you mean.

For I will declare the name of Jehovah.
Tell about the greatness of our God!
The Rock, perfect is his activity,
For all his ways are justice.
A God of faithfulness who is never unjust;
Righteous and upright is he.
They are the ones who have acted corruptly.
They are not his children, the defect is their own.
They are a crooked and twisted generation!
- De 32:3-5