Kemetic Update

[JustGeorge]

I think the main issue is that some groups have links to neo-Nazis etc. and one wouldn't want to be associated with that at any level.

I get that idea, but amongst those practicing Heathen religions, I've never actually met any of the Neo-Nazis. Not saying they're not there. I know they are. But I think the majority of them are as appalled by those ideas as the rest of us. I think its just another case of the nutjobs that yell and scream tend to be the ones that are heard... and give the rest of the people even mildly associated with them a bad name.

 

[Rival]

I get that idea, but amongst those practicing Heathen religions, I've never actually met any of the Neo-Nazis. Not saying they're not there. I know they are. But I think the majority of them are as appalled by those ideas as the rest of us. I think its just another case of the nutjobs that yell and scream tend to be the ones that are heard... and give the rest of the people even mildly associated with them a bad name.

I agree, but my point is that I wouldn't even want to be tainted by that in that way.

I have a history with National Socialism so that's maybe why I have such a knee-jerk reaction.

 

[crossfire]

Out of curiosity is there an incense that rodents hate? I want that.

Mint

 

[Rival]

I'm conflicted about using the 'Pagan' label since I don't think it suits me given the connotations it has, but on the other hand I have warmed to it. I don't like that 'Pagan' carries with it the image of pentagram wearing, earth-worshipping witches. I think that this has basically become the definition of Pagan at this point and that's not who/what I am. Academically, obviously the definition is very different.

Hmm.

 

[JustGeorge]

I'm conflicted about using the 'Pagan' label since I don't think it suits me given the connotations it has, but on the other hand I have warmed to it. I don't like that 'Pagan' carries with it the image of pentagram wearing, earth-worshipping witches. I think that this has basically become the definition of Pagan at this point and that's not who/what I am. Academically, obviously the definition is very different.

Hmm.

That's understandable.

'Kemetic Monotheist' seems like a better fit, really.

 

[Rival]

I kind of like the Pagan label though. I've become used to it now

 

[ADigitalArtist]

I'm conflicted about using the 'Pagan' label since I don't think it suits me given the connotations it has, but on the other hand I have warmed to it. I don't like that 'Pagan' carries with it the image of pentagram wearing, earth-worshipping witches. I think that this has basically become the definition of Pagan at this point and that's not who/what I am. Academically, obviously the definition is very different.

Hmm.

Funny note of trivia, a pentacle inside a pentagram is pretty ubiquitous in world religions from Babylon to China and Kemetics are no exception. Though theirs looked more like a starfish then your typical pentagram, and the pentacle circle was an ouroboros serpent. Still sometimes depicted as a simple star and circle. Called, generally, the duat symbol.

This symbol is used hieroglyphic to represent the realm of the dead, and specifically the cycle of Ra traveling through it.

 

[Rival]

Funny note of trivia, a pentacle inside a pentagram is pretty ubiquitous in world religions from Babylon to China and Kemetics are no exception. Though theirs looked more like a starfish then your typical pentagram, and the pentacle circle was an ouroboros serpent. Still sometimes depicted as a simple star and circle. Called, generally, the duat symbol.
View attachment 52417
This symbol is used hieroglyphic to represent the realm of the dead, and specifically the cycle of Ra traveling through it.

Yup, it's universal.

I just have issues with the label is all.

 

[Harel13]

I'm conflicted about using the 'Pagan' label since I don't think it suits me given the connotations it has, but on the other hand I have warmed to it. I don't like that 'Pagan' carries with it the image of pentagram wearing, earth-worshipping witches. I think that this has basically become the definition of Pagan at this point and that's not who/what I am. Academically, obviously the definition is very different.

Hmm.

I kind of like the Pagan label though. I've become used to it now

I see a lot has changed over the course of the day...

 

[Rival]

I see a lot has changed over the course of the day...

You see my confusion!

I don't mind the label, I can connect to that on the level of 'no longer being Abrahamic' and being part of that overall worldview as 'Pagan' in that broad sense; it's the connotations I don't like - what other folks think when I say it. Magic, polytheism, so on.

 

[JustGeorge]

You see my confusion!

I don't mind the label, I can connect to that on the level of 'no longer being Abrahamic' and being part of that overall worldview as 'Pagan' in that broad sense; it's the connotations I don't like - what other folks think when I say it. Magic, polytheism, so on.

Sounds like you need a personal label for yourself and close friends, and one for strangers and acquaintances

 

[Rival]

Sounds like you need a personal label for yourself and close friends, and one for strangers and acquaintances

I'm trying to shed that kind of thing though I spent four years explaining 'Noachide' to folks and now it's the same. Jews, Christians, Muslims, Sikhs so straightforward!

There should have been an Abrahamic religion to fill this void

 

[Starlight]

I'm trying to shed that kind of thing though I spent four years explaining 'Noachide' to folks and now it's the same. Jews, Christians, Muslims, Sikhs so straightforward!

There should have been an Abrahamic religion to fill this void

Why not Sikhism or Hare Krishna? Both is monotheism

 

[JustGeorge]

I'm trying to shed that kind of thing though I spent four years explaining 'Noachide' to folks and now it's the same. Jews, Christians, Muslims, Sikhs so straightforward!

There should have been an Abrahamic religion to fill this void

I suspect that, unless you subscribe to the locally dominate religion, or live in a culturally diverse area, there's always going to be some explaining to do.

Try telling someone you're a Sikh in a rural US atmosphere. Easy title, but still, lots of explaining.

 

[Rival]

Why not Sikhism or Hare Krishna? Both is monotheism

I suspect that, unless you subscribe to the locally dominate religion, or live in a culturally diverse area, there's always going to be some explaining to do.

Try telling someone you're a Sikh in a rural US atmosphere. Easy title, but still, lots of explaining.

I'm done searching, I'm fine with what I have. I'm just mentally spitballing about stuff. You can totally feel free to ignore my rambling.

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

I'm conflicted about using the 'Pagan' label since I don't think it suits me given the connotations it has, but on the other hand I have warmed to it. I don't like that 'Pagan' carries with it the image of pentagram wearing, earth-worshipping witches. I think that this has basically become the definition of Pagan at this point and that's not who/what I am. Academically, obviously the definition is very different.

Hmm.

I get around a lot of different people of different beliefs. It's not just RF, there are other social sites too. But I don't see pagan people as earth-worshipping witches. In fact, with a few exceptions, I find the people using the term "pagan" to be a bit conservative. There are witches who are feminists and everything else. But they tend to use a more exact term. Saying "pagan" either tells me one hasn't studied the specific terms too much, or they're using a more orthodox understanding of non-Abrahamic God religions, and that orthodoxy I suppose can lead to more conservative beliefs than someone who uses a more unorthodox understanding, which is often seen on the left when they approach religion.

Since no one has done a poll on RF asking whether they relate "pagan" to the things you mentioned, I couldn't tell you though.

So while I may see some of my own demographic using those terms - Democrats, liberals, progressives, people into New Age-y things, it always throws me for a loop when they do.

And I also wanted to provide the disclaimer that there are multiple types of conservative. Some witches are conservative, but not exactly the same conservative as some people of the Abrahamic faith.

If I'm misunderstanding any part of the post, I'm sorry - my opinion was 'go with Paganism if you want' - and I may be mixing up two different subjects. Sometimes I think my posts aren't helpful and they are, other times I try to be helpful but miss the whole point entirely.

 

[Rival]

I get around a lot of different people of different beliefs. It's not just RF, there are other social sites too. But I don't see pagan people as earth-worshipping witches. In fact, with a few exceptions, I find the people using the term "pagan" to be a bit conservative. There are witches who are feminists and everything else. But they tend to use a more exact term. Saying "pagan" either tells me one hasn't studied the specific terms too much, or they're using a more orthodox understanding of non-Abrahamic God religions, and that orthodoxy I suppose can lead to more conservative beliefs than someone who uses a more unorthodox understanding, which is often seen on the left when they approach religion.

Since no one has done a poll on RF asking whether they relate "pagan" to the things you mentioned, I couldn't tell you though.

So while I may see some of my own demographic using those terms - Democrats, liberals, progressives, people into New Age-y things, it always throws me for a loop when they do.

And I also wanted to provide the disclaimer that there are multiple types of conservative. Some witches are conservative, but not exactly the same conservative as some people of the Abrahamic faith.

If I'm misunderstanding any part of the post, I'm sorry - my opinion was 'go with Paganism if you want' - and I may be mixing up two different subjects. Sometimes I think my posts aren't helpful and they are, other times I try to be helpful but miss the whole point entirely.

There are likely differences between the US and European experience, as well. I'm very socially conservative, which you can find in Heathenism, but I don't jive with Heathenism.

 

[Rival]

That aside tho...

I'm fine. I actually feel happier than I did. And I know such things aren't determiners of truth; of course they're not - but it has improved my mental health and overall functioning. I've found that this can actually work for me. And yes, it will likely take me a long time if not forever to stop whining that I'm not part of a mainstream religion. After living the way I have I really do crave a community and likeminded folks, but what I've come to realise is that this is a Europe-wide problem when it comes to religion, even Christianity. You won't find that here. You will likely only find it within Islam or Dharmic communities, but even these come with their own issues, usually cultural or even ethnic (Sikh converts say they have trouble feeling like they belong or are welcome). Religion is as much a cultural expression as a spiritual one, and I've found that no matter which you choose it's going to be alienating if it's not Christianity (in Europe). Because Christianity is European. It's the European religious expression. And if you want something that's not that, you have fledgling native Pagan groups - but they're insignificant in the grand scheme of things.

To be part of another religion is, in a sense, to reject one's culture. You can't have it both ways, as much as we try, it's not possible. For the same reason many folks would tell me, Why not just be a Heathen? It's the Saxon way. And I have no answer other than, I don't like it! I'm not stupid, I realise I'm yelling at the ground and kicking at trees; I won't move anything. I also seem to have a fatal attraction to desert culture religions. They tend to be more theologically indepth and have more conservatism about them. Judaism was the ultimate expression of theological depth and social conservatism for me, as well as intellectual rigour, honesty and religious orthodoxy. I'm not silly, I know no other religion can replicate this, nor is any really even trying to. That I'm essentially an Abrahamic in Pagan dressing and then wonder why folks don't understand me. Right, that's my fault. But must it be just this horrible twist of fate that the one faith I could grasp and connect with I had such problems with?

I was hoping my 'journey' had ended with Noachidism, and I really wanted it to. But apparently I'm a product of my environment and want something that's more like the Christian concept of religio, not just a basic spirituality. It's not been as hard as I thought to transition to Kemeticism and nearly everyone here has been welcoming about it, but in some way I wanted to be more challenged than that. The only person who told me essentially that I'm on a wrong path was Hockey Cowboy and the honesty was so refreshing. I don't dislike him for saying this or have any issue with it. That's exactly the kind of community fervour I want. Oy! Don't do that, it's wrong, stop! No suagrcoating it. But I live in a Western nation where everything is permitted, and living one's own morality is hard. It feels like a losing battle. There's no-one here saying 'Don't do that, it's immoral behaviour.' Possibly there's a good reason I'm so obsessed with Victorians. Why I have a thing for fundamentalist religions.

That ship has sailed here and there's no bringing it back to dock.

 

[Brickjectivity]

Random other things I've learned:

1. Sandalwood incense is the best incense.

2. Statues etc. are ridiculously expensive, to say they're resin/plastic.

3. I like touching stuff.

1. Citronella drives away many pests.
2. Statues are cheap if you make the statues. An obelisk is simple.
3. Cover them with velvet.

 

[Rival]

I love reading the prayers in the Ancient Egyptian language. It's an amazing sounding one and I never even knew how it sounded until a few months ago.