Keep politics out of art?

[SomeRandom]

So I encounter some….interesting interpretations of media. In particular geek orientated media. Whether or not I agree with said interpretations is irrelevant. But there are times where I have to wonder if the person has ever bothered to actually read/watch/play the media in question.
Like those people (who I hope are either just trolling or just really young) suddenly confused that the music from Rage Against the Machine has gotten political all of a sudden. That was wild to say the least.

Art and politics have always been bedfellows. I know that.

Though there does seem certain sections of media criticism (particular from right leaning circles, just an observation) hell bent on diluting the connection for some reason. Although those same figures often use that same media to glean political messages from. Even from properties that apparently criticises their politics. Which is…interesting.

I’ll admit to be a little disconcerted with the American media personalities who seemingly lack media analysis skills. And this isn’t something unique to adult me either. I remember younger me being absolutely baffled at all the “Moral Panic” surrounding like Dragonball Z, Pokémon and Harry Potter back in the day. Even as a kid I was like, bro do these people not understand storytelling?

So how do you approach media criticism? Do you think about the media you consume?
The messages and implications?
Do you follow any critics?
Do you think your country adequately teaches media analysis techniques to its citizens?
And what’s the wildest interpretation of a piece of media you’ve ever encountered?

For myself I like channels like The Take, who offer bite sized analysis of tropes from cinema.
Johnny2Chellos is good for some nerd input.
Renegade Cut for some leftist analysis of media and video essays. Caddicurus for some lighthearted game analysis, thankfully minus the knuckle dragging element sadly common in gaming circles. That’s just to name a few

 

[Nakosis]

I avoid politics in art.
One movie comes to mind "Squid Game".

For some reason the right has a tickle up their butt about it.
Me, I liked it ok, for entertainment, but it's fiction to me. Nothing to get worked up over.

 

[Stevicus]

So I encounter some….interesting interpretations of media. In particular geek orientated media. Whether or not I agree with said interpretations is irrelevant. But there are times where I have to wonder if the person has ever bothered to actually read/watch/play the media in question.
Like those people (who I hope are either just trolling or just really young) suddenly confused that the music from Rage Against the Machine has gotten political all of a sudden. That was wild to say the least.

Art and politics have always been bedfellows. I know that.

Though there does seem certain sections of media criticism (particular from right leaning circles, just an observation) hell bent on diluting the connection for some reason. Although those same figures often use that same media to glean political messages from. Even from properties that apparently criticises their politics. Which is…interesting.

I’ll admit to be a little disconcerted with the American media personalities who seemingly lack media analysis skills. And this isn’t something unique to adult me either. I remember younger me being absolutely baffled at all the “Moral Panic” surrounding like Dragonball Z, Pokémon and Harry Potter back in the day. Even as a kid I was like, bro do these people not understand storytelling?

I'm not sure what you're getting at here, at least in terms of American media personalities lacking media analysis skills. Also never got into Dragonball Z, Pokémon and Harry Potter.

It does seem strange that there are/were some people who didn't think Rage Against The Machine was political, but it may be that they're not familiar with their music.

So how do you approach media criticism? Do you think about the media you consume?
The messages and implications?
Do you follow any critics?
Do you think your country adequately teaches media analysis techniques to its citizens?
And what’s the wildest interpretation of a piece of media you’ve ever encountered?

Are you talking about film critics or music critics? I don't really pay that much attention to them myself. I used to watch Siskel and Ebert a long time ago, but even then, I didn't usually agree with them.

When I was a kid, I do remember learning about commercial speech and advertisers. It was also something my grandfather would spend some time on, learning the weasel words and other deceptive strategies in business. With news media, not so much, since we still had the Fairness Doctrine back then.

However, when I studied Russian, I also took a class on reading Soviet newspapers which included some frank discussions on propaganda techniques. However, I have used those skills to analyze U.S. media as well.

For myself I like channels like The Take, who offer bite sized analysis of tropes from cinema.
Johnny2Chellos is good for some nerd input.
Renegade Cut for some leftist analysis of media and video essays. Caddicurus for some lighthearted game analysis, thankfully minus the knuckle dragging element sadly common in gaming circles. That’s just to name a few

Never heard of any of these, but I might check them out.

 

[Lain]

So how do you approach media criticism? Do you think about the media you consume?
The messages and implications?
Do you follow any critics?
Do you think your country adequately teaches media analysis techniques to its citizens?
And what’s the wildest interpretation of a piece of media you’ve ever encountered?

From the USA: I don't think anywhere really teaches media analysis besides some easy electives in high-school and possibly a college course or two. Not sure though.

The most wild interpretations I've seen in memory as I saw it recently were apparently groups of people who genuinely thought Walter White was good in Breaking Bad. I only recently watched the whole series (movie and prequel also) so I only looked into views on it recently, perhaps that is a popular viewpoint but I fail to understand it.

The critics I follow are Lindsay Ellis and the channels she links to on her channel, and related channels. I find her videos to be interesting and entertaining so I started watching her years ago when I ate dinner, I still keep it up.

I think about the media I consume for to me watching or reading media (or really anything at all) is entering the mind of another and what they are trying to say to you. Whether or not I consider that message to be good or bad and how effectively it is communicated and explained in the thing is one of the main ways I judge whether or not something is good art or bad art. Sometimes I avoid media for I think that whoever made it has a bad mind and I do not want association with their thoughts. Another reason to pay attention to this to me is that if you don't you can begin to think the thoughts of another and I do not always want that.

 

[sun rise]

So how do you approach media criticism? Do you think about the media you consume?

I do if there's something that calls out to me about it. The fundamentalist Christian freak-out about Harry Potter was I thought typical.

Sometimes I find something that echoes how I see things. Against, for example, Harry Potter. The web site Leaky Cauldron did a survey about what the underlying theme of the series was. I might have put them in a different order but all three of the top vote getters were:

...choices ("It is our choices Harry, that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities") won with 29% of the vote;

love conquers evil ("It was your heart that saved you") came in second with 25% of the vote,

and to do what is right over what is easy ("..if the time should come when you have to make a choice between what is right and what is easy...") came in third with 22% of the vote.

Do you think your country adequately teaches media analysis techniques to its citizens?

Totally and absolutely not. Media analysis, logical fallacies and so forth are not taught and should be.

 

[SomeRandom]

I'm not sure what you're getting at here, at least in terms of American media personalities lacking media analysis skills. Also never got into Dragonball Z, Pokémon and Harry Potter.

Really? I saw them on the morning news all the time back in the late 90s early 2000s. Granted it was mostly in the context of our news reporters being somewhat confused by the phenomenon.

My teachers at the time even (mildly) mocked the supposed book burnings happening, citing ignorance and lamenting a lack of academic thought. Though they often used it as a jumping off point to discuss literary/ideas suppression in history. I think that’s where I first learnt about McCarthyism.

I think those commentators crying about the evils of Harry Potter etc mostly came from the Fox News segments, but I was really young at the time so don’t quote me on that.

It does seem strange that there are/were some people who didn't think Rage Against The Machine was political, but it may be that they're not familiar with their music.

Hopefully. It’s become something of a running joke among certain geek circles. The whole “/r Whoosh” joke.
IOW a message completely flying over someone’s head.

Are you talking about film critics or music critics? I don't really pay that much attention to them myself. I used to watch Siskel and Ebert a long time ago, but even then, I didn't usually agree with them.

Any media critic really. Music, games, books whatever you like.

The media critics I like are on platforms such as YouTube or even Twitch. Probably because that’s where I found the most “relatable” content. Insofar as people enjoying the same interest as me.
There’s “BookTube” for book nerds to gush about literature on YouTube. There’s various gaming communities, film buffs and everything in between. Some spaces are political neutral insofar as they’re not the at the forefront of everyone’s mind. It’s just nerds being nerdy. Others where heated but somewhat amicable political debates are matter of course. It depends on what community one is looking for I suppose.

When I was a kid, I do remember learning about commercial speech and advertisers. It was also something my grandfather would spend some time on, learning the weasel words and other deceptive strategies in business. With news media, not so much, since we still had the Fairness Doctrine back then.

What’s the fairness doctrine?

However, when I studied Russian, I also took a class on reading Soviet newspapers which included some frank discussions on propaganda techniques. However, I have used those skills to analyze U.S. media as well.

Interesting

Never heard of any of these, but I might check them out.

Go for it. They’re fun.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

So I encounter some….interesting interpretations of media. In particular geek orientated media. Whether or not I agree with said interpretations is irrelevant. But there are times where I have to wonder if the person has ever bothered to actually read/watch/play the media in question.
Like those people (who I hope are either just trolling or just really young) suddenly confused that the music from Rage Against the Machine has gotten political all of a sudden. That was wild to say the least.

I guess ignorance manifests in strange ways. But at some point you wonder why people feel compelled to offer opinions on things they cleary don't even have passing familiarity with.

Art and politics have always been bedfellows. I know that.

Indeed they have. Always, always, always. Roman art was quite notable for it's political commentary.

Though there does seem certain sections of media criticism (particular from right leaning circles, just an observation) hell bent on diluting the connection for some reason. Although those same figures often use that same media to glean political messages from. Even from properties that apparently criticises their politics. Which is…interesting.

I think the artistic community leans left, in a modern American sense. So discounting commentary from the Arts community makes sense in a cynical way.

I’ll admit to be a little disconcerted with the American media personalities who seemingly lack media analysis skills. And this isn’t something unique to adult me either. I remember younger me being absolutely baffled at all the “Moral Panic” surrounding like Dragonball Z, Pokémon and Harry Potter back in the day. Even as a kid I was like, bro do these people not understand storytelling?

I had complaints made to me when I was a teacher because some students were choosing to read Harry Potter in their own self-directed reading time, and then daring to speak about it in the yard. These were pretty fundamentalist Christian types, and we had to have a blunt conversation about freedom of choice and diversity. These days I'd be more likely to then start a 10 week lesson plan focused on analysing Harry Potter...lol

So how do you approach media criticism? Do you think about the media you consume?
The messages and implications?

Constantly. Indeed, I have a hard time NOT doing that. It's very hard to turn off.

Do you follow any critics?

Not really. I have at times been pretty invested in fact-checking services and shows. Not so much in assessment of bias, etc, apart from researching the general credibility of different information sources in the news and current affairs realm.

Do you think your country adequately teaches media analysis techniques to its citizens?

I'd say the media landscape moves much more quickly than educational curriculum could, and teachers are not always well connected to modern media sources anyway. I know when I was a teacher we VERY explicitly taught critical reading skills to students (Critical Reading: What Does It Really Mean? (thoughtco.com).
That's divorced from anything explicitly on modern media, or even factual information at all. However, I think to a large degree it teaches transferable skills. That type of transferable skill building is probably where formal education can play a role.

And what’s the wildest interpretation of a piece of media you’ve ever encountered?

I've had stories from this website (The Betoota Advocate - Australia's Oldest And Favourite Newspaper) sent to me as if they were legit, which is always amusing and scary in equal parts. I love the website...but if people don't get that it's satirical they're failing to even superficially interact with the text.

For myself I like channels like The Take, who offer bite sized analysis of tropes from cinema.
Johnny2Chellos is good for some nerd input.
Renegade Cut for some leftist analysis of media and video essays. Caddicurus for some lighthearted game analysis, thankfully minus the knuckle dragging element sadly common in gaming circles. That’s just to name a few

I dunno. I used to watch Attack of the Show! back in the day, but that's not really what you're talking about, I think.
I generally spend my time trying to avoid things like 'leftist analysis'...lol

 

[SomeRandom]

From the USA: I don't think anywhere really teaches media analysis besides some easy electives in high-school and possibly a college course or two. Not sure though.

The most wild interpretations I've seen in memory as I saw it recently were apparently groups of people who genuinely thought Walter White was good in Breaking Bad. I only recently watched the whole series (movie and prequel also) so I only looked into views on it recently, perhaps that is a popular viewpoint but I fail to understand it.

That is wild.
But I’ve encountered similar for works such as Fight Club, The Joker and even Taxi Driver. The idea of the protagonist being automatically the good guy or hero.
It is a bit baffling though maybe it speaks to the lack of media analysis being taught?
I was taught early in high school, maybe even late primary (elementary/middle) to seperate the protagonist from the hero archetype. This was in English class mind you. Not any elective course.
Granted the idea was fleshed out somewhat more in the elective Socialism class I took in high school.

The critics I follow are Lindsay Ellis and the channels she links to on her channel, and related channels. I find her videos to be interesting and entertaining so I started watching her years ago when I ate dinner, I still keep it up.

Oh I love Lindsay Ellis and cohorts.
Started watching her when I was in high school and she went by Nostalgia Chick. I was even around with the whole #changerhechannel drama. It was weird.

I think about the media I consume for to me watching or reading media (or really anything at all) is entering the mind of another and what they are trying to say to you. Whether or not I consider that message to be good or bad and how effectively it is communicated and explained in the thing is one of the main ways I judge whether or not something is good art or bad art. Sometimes I avoid media for I think that whoever made it has a bad mind and I do not want association with their thoughts. Another reason to pay attention to this to me is that if you don't you can begin to think the thoughts of another and I do not always want that.

That’s smart.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

That is wild.
But I’ve encountered similar for works such as Fight Club, The Joker and even Taxi Driver. The idea of the protagonist being automatically the good guy or hero.
It is a bit baffling though maybe it speaks to the lack of media analysis being taught?
I was taught early in high school, maybe even late primary (elementary/middle) to seperate the protagonist from the hero archetype. This was in English class mind you. Not any elective course.
Granted the idea was fleshed out somewhat more in the elective Socialism class I took in high school.

Hmm...maybe we should have a less public discussion at some point on the novel I'm ever so slowly chipping away at writing. I'm playing with this concept a little in it. Maybe of interest to you?
PM me if so. If not, all good. Not everyone wants to hear me ramble about my very amateurish writing attempts.

 

[Stevicus]

Really? I saw them on the morning news all the time back in the late 90s early 2000s. Granted it was mostly in the context of our news reporters being somewhat confused by the phenomenon.

My teachers at the time even (mildly) mocked the supposed book burnings happening, citing ignorance and lamenting a lack of academic thought. Though they often used it as a jumping off point to discuss literary/ideas suppression in history. I think that’s where I first learnt about McCarthyism.

I think those commentators crying about the evils of Harry Potter etc mostly came from the Fox News segments, but I was really young at the time so don’t quote me on that.

Of course, I have heard of these things, but they came out when I was in an age group that was older than their target audience. At some point, I just didn't care much about popular culture or the latest fads or any of that stuff. For me, much of it is just fluff and background noise, while I paid attention to other issues.

Overall, there have been plenty of those who have decried the influence of artists deemed "harmful" or "dangerous." Plenty of writers have been persecuted and lambasted in their own countries. Elvis was widely criticized and mocked. The Beatles were once thought to be a communist plot. I once attended a concert by some musicians from your neck of the woods, AC/DC, and as we were going inside, there was some guy with a megaphone (just off the property) delivering a sermon and saying we were all going to hell.

The McCarthyism also left its mark, as that kind of fed in to the whole "Christian Crusade" against the "Godless Communists." I guess it just bounces off me because I've been inundated with this kind of talk most of my life. Now that you mention it, I think I do remember some talk about Harry Potter being "Satanic" or whatever, but I never really paid much mind to people who said that kind of stuff. They think the Devil is everywhere, consorting with the godless commies to infiltrate our government and raise taxes and mandate decent wages and working conditions.

Hopefully. It’s become something of a running joke among certain geek circles. The whole “/r Whoosh” joke.
IOW a message completely flying over someone’s head.

Well, just the name "Rage Against The Machine" would imply something political, even if it's a collection of old Luddite folk songs.

Any media critic really. Music, games, books whatever you like.

The media critics I like are on platforms such as YouTube or even Twitch. Probably because that’s where I found the most “relatable” content. Insofar as people enjoying the same interest as me.
There’s “BookTube” for book nerds to gush about literature on YouTube. There’s various gaming communities, film buffs and everything in between. Some spaces are political neutral insofar as they’re not the at the forefront of everyone’s mind. It’s just nerds being nerdy. Others where heated but somewhat amicable political debates are matter of course. It depends on what community one is looking for I suppose.

I might look at game critics, especially if it's a game I'm considering and wondering if I want to spend the money on it. On YouTube, I think I've looked at "CinemaSins" and others that might point out errors or flaws in movies. There was another one (I can't remember what it's called) where they reviewed a number of historical movies and evaluated their accuracy. Those are kind of interesting.

The ones I can never truly understand, though, are art critics. I'm more of a "I don't understand much about art, but I know what I like" kind of guy. Although I do find political or historical art to be fascinating. There's a Russian painting which depicts Ivan the Terrible's remorse after killing his son and heir to the throne.

What’s the fairness doctrine?

FCC fairness doctrine - Wikipedia

In a nutshell, it's a standard for broadcasters to present both sides fairly and maintain a commitment to the public interest. That was abolished under Reagan in 1987.

It was believed early on, after radio became more and more widespread, that there was a certain immediacy and power of the spoken word which had never really existed at any time in the history of humankind. So, it was a power that had to be shared, which is how the FCC came into being in the first place. TV was generally treated the same way at first.

To me, it seems that the internet is the great equalizer, since TV, radio, newspapers were under control of big business. Now, anyone can be their own TV producer and upload their own shows to YouTube or some other channel. Now, there are so many out there, it's impossible to watch them all - and I don't even try.

Someone could post a live streaming cam of grass growing, and there'd probably be someone watching it.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Do you think about the media you consume?

Quite a bit. To the point that to me the tragedy of the Notebook is that no one was trying to healthily cope with what had happened and it's made worse that no one interjected and allowed the destructive coping to continue. I didn't even realize Fight Club is considered a guys flick for the longest time because of all the philosophy books that build up and make up the natural laws in that world. And I like political media like Motorhead and the Boondocks.
News media is sucking more everyday. It's to corporized, commercialized, and getting ever closer to an actual monopoly. Most mass media also sucks, being formulaic and highly interchangeable and made to appeal to the bland, average masses. And many times to appeal to the lowest common denominator.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I'm not sure what you're getting at here, at least in terms of American media personalities lacking media analysis skills. Also never got into Dragonball Z, Pokémon and Harry Potter.

Evangelicals taught they were evil and of the Devil, much as it did with DnD, MtG, Care Bears and Marilyn Manson.
Dragonball Z I don't remember complaints about. Pokemon promotes evolution and has the goal of being a Pokemon Master but Jesus is the only master. Harry Potter teaches real witchcraft.

Are you talking about film critics or music critics?

I don't know why anyone does.

 

[Aštra’el]

Pokemon promotes evolution and has the goal of being a Pokemon Master but Jesus is the only master.

Actually the concern with Pokémon was that children basically capture and summon demons to exact their will and wield the elements against their foes.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Actually the concern with Pokémon was that children basically capture and summon demons to exact their will and wield the elements against their foes.

Actually what I gave came from the church material I had.

 

[SomeRandom]

Dragonball Z I don't remember complaints about. .

DBZ was about promoting violence iirc. Though that could have been some satirical trolling all the same

 

[Kooky]

I avoid politics in art.

You must really hate Casablanca then.

 

[Nakosis]

You must really hate Casablanca then.

As per my earlier post, fiction is fiction.

 

[Twilight Hue]

McCarthyism seems ironic by which every right winger is apparently now a racist or fascist.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I avoid politics in art.

So you avoid art, then?

 

[SomeRandom]

McCarthyism seems ironic by which every right winger is apparently now a racist or fascist.

Well I mean. Yeah, I guess.
I dunno, I’m not American so I can only comment on what I personally see through interactions.
The “right wingers” don’t seem to say anything about art other than “omg they’ve made X political now.” Which is a bit…odd. And then there’s content creators who are conservatives who only complain when a work stars someone of colour or a woman. So I mean you do that and people will draw conclusions. That’s all I’ll say.
Maybe there’s more I’m missing. But all the art deep dive critiques online, at least in my weird little online bubble, seem to come from people who seem to espouse leftist ideology outside their content. The video essays and breakdowns of characters, tropes and even season reviews.

This does legitimately change once you enter the “book sphere” anywhere though. Since you do actually get analysis from across the political spectrum and insights utilising the lenses from a variety of political affiliations across the board. So it could just be a visual vs written thing, idk.