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kabbalah

Caladan

Agnostic Pantheist
Do you mean have I ever breathed life into a Golem? or ascended to the sphere of Tiphareth? ;)

If you'd like to know anything 'serious' about Kabbalah, why not pick up a few books and read original Kabbalistic literature? people can even find English translations of the Zohar today.
 

Evee

Member
All I know is that it's a kind of Jewish mysticism. It's still beyond me. :p
You can learn more about it here, though, from a Chabad perspective.
 

Lansdowne Mike

New Member
Good introduction to Kabbalah is by Joseph Dan: "Kabbalah: a Very Short Introduction". Gershom Scholem is very academic and difficult for the beginner, and reading the Zohar cold, without understanding something about the symbol systems, is a waste of time for the beginner. (Sorry for not being able to post links, but I'm a newcomer in this neighborhood.)
 

Lansdowne Mike

New Member
There are two very different ways of learning (about) Kabbalah. From the outside (like the Dan book I mentioned above) which tends to be pretty academic, with a historical and/or philosophical intent. Or from the inside, like the kab.tv or chabad.org (or many others), which tends to present (their approach to) Kabbalah as a set of important truths that help us understand ourselves, the world, God, etc. It's probably important to figure out which way you'd like to approach the topic before you dig too deeply; otherwise you might be setting yourself up for serious disappointment and/or confusion.
 

NoahideHiker

Religious Headbanger
Doesn't Judaism teach that Kabbalah is only to be learned by Jews after one has mastered the Torah? Isn't Kabbalah something that is not to be taken lightly? Isn't there a bunch of Hollywood garbage out there?
 

Caladan

Agnostic Pantheist
Doesn't Judaism teach that Kabbalah is only to be learned by Jews after one has mastered the Torah? Isn't Kabbalah something that is not to be taken lightly? Isn't there a bunch of Hollywood garbage out there?
There are many sensational trends with the Kabbalah, as can be expected from such an esoteric and sexy field.
 

arimoff

Active Member
Doesn't Judaism teach that Kabbalah is only to be learned by Jews after one has mastered the Torah? Isn't Kabbalah something that is not to be taken lightly? Isn't there a bunch of Hollywood garbage out there?

yes you are right but what can you do about it? people claim there is practical kabbalah, but I can't see how that is possible. it is part of a believe part of religion you can't take the book out of that religion and claim they know it lol.

I know some people who claim they study kabbalah but yet they can't seem to understand it because it has no effect on them.

I never learned kabbalah but I know a lot of our prayers or traditions are according to kabbalistic customs, so it means they are written there, but how then can people claim they learned it and not live according to the Torah is out of my understanding.
 

Mr Cheese

Well-Known Member
“The essence of divinity is found in every single thing – nothing but it exists. Since it causes every thing to be, no thing can live by anything else. It enlivens them, its existence exists in each existent.

Do not attribute duality to God. Let God be solely God. If you suppose that Ain Sof emanates until a certain point, and that from that point on is outside of it, you have dualized. God forbid! Do not say, ‘This is a stone and not God.’ God forbid! Rather, all existence is God, and the stone is a thing pervaded by divinity.”

- Moses Cordovero (Shiur Komah)


I know some things....

A friend of mine, has been a practising Kabbalist for 40 years.
He once told me that, after 40 years, I know and have experienced many things.
But I have come to the realisation, that I have berely scratched the surface on understanding of Kabbalah....

The moral:

Anyone who says that they know a great deal or everything about Kabbalah is best avoided as they are being silly.....

.......

With that in mind, what exactly did you want to know? I have already begun a topic on this...

Here is a book list, givento me by my friend, plus additions by myself:

Kabbalah Books « Prayers and Reflections


There was once a prudish, angry old man who never had any fun. He would not even let his cat out to have a good time. Finally, he decided to go to Los Angeles. Before he went he told his care taker to keep the cat indoors. But once in LA, he got caught up in a great love affair that carried him on the wings of joy from event to event. After a week of this, he faxed his caretaker. “Having a hell of a time!” he wrote “Let the cat out!”

By its nature religion is meant to let the cat out. It is meant to open the door of our soul to the sweetness of God and the world. In spite of the many differences of opinion within the Jewish path and the many divisions among teachers and philosophies, this is the main teaching.

–The way of flame, a guide to the forgotten mystical tradition of Jewish meditation (Avram Davis)
 

Mr Cheese

Well-Known Member
yes you are right but what can you do about it? people claim there is practical kabbalah, but I can't see how that is possible. it is part of a believe part of religion you can't take the book out of that religion and claim they know it lol.

I know some people who claim they study kabbalah but yet they can't seem to understand it because it has no effect on them.

I never learned kabbalah but I know a lot of our prayers or traditions are according to kabbalistic customs, so it means they are written there, but how then can people claim they learned it and not live according to the Torah is out of my understanding.


Kabbalah like any mystical or "spiritual path" is a living tradition
There are many that seek to set it in concrete. Kabbalah, just like Judaism (again there are many that seek to set Judaism in concrete) is a living tradition. Living traditions, breathe and grow. Dead traditions stay the same and do not change.
As a living tradition Kabbalah changes and adapts (so does Judaism).... fundamentalists and the ignorant will state otherwise.

jladderc.gif

Jacob's Ladder (composed of 4 kabbalistic worlds)
 

Lansdowne Mike

New Member
Doesn't Judaism teach that Kabbalah is only to be learned by Jews after one has mastered the Torah? Isn't Kabbalah something that is not to be taken lightly? Isn't there a bunch of Hollywood garbage out there?

1) Yes and No, 2) Yes, 3) Yes. With respect to the first question, there are some in Judaism who do teach "that Kabbalah is only to be learned by Jews after one has mastered the Torah." Actually they teach that one needs to first learn a lot of (does anyone ever really master) Torah, and then, they teach that one needs to learn a great deal of Talmud. But that's for a particular purpose: to learn, through the canonical writings, what God wants of the Jewish people (and the reasons God wants it) according to the heart of the Jewish tradition. Others, with pretty good credentials, teach that one can learn enough about Kabbalah to improve one's life and certainly to become more knowledgeable about the Jewish tradition.

If someone told you you couldn't drive a car until you had mastered the workings of the car, you'd have a lot harder time learning to drive. From the Hasids, and then again from the leaders of Jewish Renewal, we learned that one can get a driver's licence without having a Master's degree in automotive engineering, i.e., that one can learn how to use the wisdom of Kabbalah--in a Jewish context--to make ourselves better Jews, even if we don't understand the esoteric parts.

There's certainly a lot of garbage out there, but I wouldn't automatically suggest that everything new is garbage (some would say that). You probably should find out more about specific approaches to Kabbalah before making that kind of claim.
 

Mr Cheese

Well-Known Member
1) Yes and No, 2) Yes, 3) Yes. With respect to the first question, there are some in Judaism who do teach "that Kabbalah is only to be learned by Jews after one has mastered the Torah." Actually they teach that one needs to first learn a lot of (does anyone ever really master) Torah, and then, they teach that one needs to learn a great deal of Talmud. But that's for a particular purpose: to learn, through the canonical writings, what God wants of the Jewish people (and the reasons God wants it) according to the heart of the Jewish tradition. Others, with pretty good credentials, teach that one can learn enough about Kabbalah to improve one's life and certainly to become more knowledgeable about the Jewish tradition.

If someone told you you couldn't drive a car until you had mastered the workings of the car, you'd have a lot harder time learning to drive. From the Hasids, and then again from the leaders of Jewish Renewal, we learned that one can get a driver's licence without having a Master's degree in automotive engineering, i.e., that one can learn how to use the wisdom of Kabbalah--in a Jewish context--to make ourselves better Jews, even if we don't understand the esoteric parts.

There's certainly a lot of garbage out there, but I wouldn't automatically suggest that everything new is garbage (some would say that). You probably should find out more about specific approaches to Kabbalah before making that kind of claim.

very well said, yet when people try to sell "kabbalah water" etc. :facepalm:

It kind of detracts from the whole thing.....

Of course one could argue you can just turn the key and drive, you dont need to read the manual. although reading the manual will give you further insight, but readign the manual wont enable you to buy some milk from the supermarket, only driving the car will.....
 

habahaba

New Member
very well said, yet when people try to sell "kabbalah water" etc. :facepalm:

It kind of detracts from the whole thing.....

Of course one could argue you can just turn the key and drive, you dont need to read the manual. although reading the manual will give you further insight, but readign the manual wont enable you to buy some milk from the supermarket, only driving the car will.....
Yes you talent :)
 
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