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JWs, please answer!

no-body

Well-Known Member
Never trust the NWT. No "Christian" demonination, cult, or otherwise has went through such lengths to change/modify/revise the bible to fit their theological agenda than the good ole Jehovah's Witnesses.

I thought the same thing for a long time but I've read as far as translations go it's really not that bad.

Not to say that JW don't do this anyways though.
 

Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
I thought the same thing for a long time but I've read as far as translations go it's really not that bad.

Not to say that JW don't do this anyways though.

im all ears if you want to cite some examples
 

no-body

Well-Known Member
im all ears if you want to cite some examples

That's a lot to choose from. How about twisting eating blood to no blood transfusions?

It's the same as most any other Christian denomination though. They all think they're interpreting scripture "the way God wants"
 

Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
That's a lot to choose from. How about twisting eating blood to no blood transfusions?

It's the same as most any other Christian denomination though. They all think they're interpreting scripture "the way God wants"

i guess we look at it a little differently to everyone else.

but there is no denying that Gods law, even Christian law, states that one must not take the blood of another and consume it.

We view blood transfusions as a form of consumption even if we are not literally 'eating' through our mouth. Its still going into our our own body which is what the law forbids.
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Originally Posted by no-body View Post
I thought the same thing for a long time but I've read as far as translations go it's really not that bad.

Not to say that JW don't do this anyways though.

im all ears if you want to cite some examples

Jehovah's Witnesses add an "a" at John 1:1. Also they teach God can not let errors creep into the Bible. And they teach all other religion is called by God "Babylon the Great" who will be destroyed because of it's unfaithfulness.

Here are three mistakes of Babylon the Great that were carried over into the NWT that I know of about the words spoken by Jesus.

1. Jesus saying "Then they questioned him, saying: “Teacher, when will these things actually be, and what will be the sign when these things are to occur?”8 He said: “Look out that you are not misled, for many will come on the basis of my name, saying, ‘I am he,’ and, ‘The due time is near.’ Do not go after them.

Jesus really said "Look out that you do not mislead"

2. Jesus saying Luke 13:25 When the householder gets up and locks the door, you will stand outside knocking at the door, saying, ‘Lord, open to us.’ But in answer he will say to you: ‘I do not know where you are from.’ 26 Then you will start saying, ‘We ate and drank in your presence, and you taught in our main streets.’ 27 But he will say to you, ‘I do not know where you are from. Get away from me, all you workers of unrighteousness!’ 28 There is where your weeping

Jesus really "Away from me all your works of unrighteousness"

3. Jesus saying Matthew 28:18 Jesus approached and spoke to them, saying: “All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth.19 Go, therefore, and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them+ in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you. And look! I am with you all the days until the conclusion of the system of things.”

Jesus really saying going [You] disciple the nations.

They were to do like Jesus did. Did Jesus make disciples?
 

no-body

Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by no-body View Post




Jehovah's Witnesses add an "a" at John 1:1. Also they teach God can not let errors creep into the Bible. And they teach all other religion is called by God "Babylon the Great" who will be destroyed because of it's unfaithfulness.

Here are three mistakes of Babylon the Great that were carried over into the NWT that I know of about the words spoken by Jesus.

1. Jesus saying "Then they questioned him, saying: “Teacher, when will these things actually be, and what will be the sign when these things are to occur?”8 He said: “Look out that you are not misled, for many will come on the basis of my name, saying, ‘I am he,’ and, ‘The due time is near.’ Do not go after them.

Jesus really said "Look out that you do not mislead"

2. Jesus saying Luke 13:25 When the householder gets up and locks the door, you will stand outside knocking at the door, saying, ‘Lord, open to us.’ But in answer he will say to you: ‘I do not know where you are from.’ 26 Then you will start saying, ‘We ate and drank in your presence, and you taught in our main streets.’ 27 But he will say to you, ‘I do not know where you are from. Get away from me, all you workers of unrighteousness!’ 28 There is where your weeping

Jesus really "Away from me all your works of unrighteousness"

3. Jesus saying Matthew 28:18 Jesus approached and spoke to them, saying: “All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth.19 Go, therefore, and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them+ in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you. And look! I am with you all the days until the conclusion of the system of things.”

Jesus really saying going [You] disciple the nations.

They were to do like Jesus did. Did Jesus make disciples?


Of course their is bias in their translation. But you can find instances of bias in other translations like the NIV too. I meant to say it's not as bad as people think when you look at objective critical reviews of the translations.
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Of course their is bias in their translation. But you can find instances of bias in other translations like the NIV too. I meant to say it's not as bad as people think when you look at objective critical reviews of the translations.

Yes. Every Bible in print has all those biases. Three things Jesus said which he didn't say. See? What is funny about it is JWs say all the others will die for thier unfaithfullness but they are propagating the very same errors everyone else does.

Another error all the Bibles teach is that love is not provoked. It is much easier to refrain from anger than it is to not cause anger. And we know for sure that proselytizing causes unbelievers to be provoked. But if the Bibles say what the writer wrote which is "love does not provoke" then proselytizing would not be coming from love and they say it is.
 
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Ingledsva

HEATHEN ALASKAN
Ingledsva said:
What Christians believe - does not change the wording in the Bible - or the fact that Jesus would have been a Jew, believing in ONE God, - no trinity.
Jesus was accused of calling himself God, and he never denied those accusations. Hmmm.


ING - Actually Jesus quotes a text where God calls the Judges of Israel Elohiym (Psalm 82:6.) Elohiym when used with humans, means chosen of God = little "gods," Royalty appointed by God - Kings, Princes, Magistrates/Judges, etc.

He is claiming to be the awaited Messiah, - the ultimate judge - that brings the end and final judgment.


2Sa 1:14 And David said unto him, How wast thou not afraid to stretch forth thine hand to destroy the LORD'S anointed?

Rom 13:1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.


Ingledsva said:
Jesus as God, and the trinity ideas, are from misreading and or mistranslating the text.
Or a correct translation and accurate readings.


ING - I've read all the ones you folks post. So where are these verses?


Ingledsva said:
There is nowhere in there where it actually says Jesus is God, or that there is a trinity.
There is scriptural evidence that all three persons within the Trinity were all called "God" at some point in time in the bible.

Where?

Joh 10:24 Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly.
Joh 10:25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.


They make it plain here that the subject is him claiming to be the MESSIAH - the ultimate LAST JUDGE of Israel.


Joh 10:29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
Joh 10:30 I and my Father are one.

(As One, The President and I are one/as one. in complete agreement.)


Joh 10:31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.
Joh 10:32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?
Joh 10:33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

This "god" is Theos - which just as Elohiym - also means JUDGE. They are angry that he is calling himself the MESSIAH - a JUDGE of Israel - higher in rank then them.

because Thou, being a man, appoint thyself a Magistrate (of Israel.)

Bible says YHVH appoints the Kings, Princes, Magistrates/Judges, etc.



Joh 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
Joh 10:35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

(Psalm 82) Elohiym Magistrates/Judges.


Joh 10:36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?


Joh 10:37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.
Joh 10:38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.

Note here that he does not say he is God.


*
 

Redemptionsong

Well-Known Member
Pegg,
Moses was not a saviour. Does it say anywhere in the NWT that Moses was a saviour?

2 Peter 1:17 refers to a time when God spoke to Jesus, his only begotten son.

We seem to agree that whilst on earth Jesus Christ was a sinless man filled with the Holy Spirit. This is what I call being fully God and fully man. You have difficulty with this. Nevertheless, once raised to heaven, as incorruptible spirit, surely you too must think he is worthy of worship?

Philippians 2:5-10
'Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.'

Why would everything in heaven and earth 'bow the knee' if not in worship?
 

Ingledsva

HEATHEN ALASKAN
Pegg,
Moses was not a saviour. Does it say anywhere in the NWT that Moses was a saviour?


ING - Act 7:35 This Moses whom they refused, saying, Who made thee a ruler and a judge? the same did God send to be a ruler and a deliverer by the hand of the angel which appeared to him in the bush.

(MOSES) Deu 18:15 The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken;


(YHVH) Deu 18:18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.

Act 7:37 This is that Moses, which said unto the children of Israel, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear.


And this – Jesus speaking -


John 5:46 “For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me (JESUS), for he (MOSES)wrote about Me (JESUS).”



Rom 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam, to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.



2 Peter 1:17 refers to a time when God spoke to Jesus, his only begotten son.


ING - How would this verse (if true) make him a God?

2Pe 1:17 For he received from God the Father honor and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

All Magistrates/Judges, Kings, Princes, are called Elohiym.

ALL of the Israelites, are called Sons of God.



We seem to agree that whilst on earth Jesus Christ was a sinless man filled with the Holy Spirit. This is what I call being fully God and fully man. You have difficulty with this. Nevertheless, once raised to heaven, as incorruptible spirit, surely you too must think he is worthy of worship?


ING - He appears to have had guerrillas with fighting swords, he started riots, got angry and chased people with whips, etc.


Philippians 2:5-10
'Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.'

Why would everything in heaven and earth 'bow the knee' if not in worship?


None of this means he was God, or part of a Trinity God.


Why not if he is the awaited Special/Singular MESSIAH - from the Line of David - sent to bring the end - and final judgment?



*
 
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Call_of_the_Wild

Well-Known Member
ING - Actually Jesus quotes a text where God calls the Judges of Israel Elohiym (Psalm 82:6.) Elohiym when used with humans, means chosen of God = little "gods," Royalty appointed by God - Kings, Princes, Magistrates/Judges, etc.

Joh 10:31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.
Joh 10:32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?
Joh 10:33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

I am actually talking about the above scriptures, where Jesus was accused of calling himself God. This is the same one you quoted below.

ING - I've read all the ones you folks post. So where are these verses?

Just take any scripture that Trinitarians use to make a case for the Trinity, and compare the NWT's rendering of the verses with any other bible besides their own, and tell me what do you see.


We know that the Father is called God, so the only question is whether Jesus or the Holy Spirit are called God.

Jesus is called God
27 Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe.”
28 Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”
29 Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”

Holy Spirit is called God
3 Then Peter said, “Ananias, how is it that Satan has so filled your heart that you have lied to the Holy Spirit and have kept for yourself some of the money you received for the land? 4 Didn’t it belong to you before it was sold? And after it was sold, wasn’t the money at your disposal? What made you think of doing such a thing? You have not lied just to human beings but to God.”

Joh 10:24 Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly.
Joh 10:25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.


They make it plain here that the subject is him claiming to be the MESSIAH - the ultimate LAST JUDGE of Israel.

So just because he is is claiming to be the the Messiah, that mean that he isn't God? So just because we call Cassius Clay (his birth name) Muhammad Ali, that mean that he isn't Cassius Clay? Hmmm.

Joh 10:29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

Greater in terms of what? Position. At a school, the principal is greater than every person within the domain of the school. No one is greater than the position..no teacher, no secretary, no counselor, no student. But is principal any greater of a human being than anyone else in the school? No. When we say that Jesus is God, we are talking about his Deity, not his position/role...as Phil 2:5-9 indicates.

Joh 10:30 I and my Father are one.

(As One, The President and I are one/as one. in complete agreement.)

Once Jesus said "I and the Father are one", the Jews picked up stones to stone him...and they said they were stoning him because he claimed to be God. So the Jews understood Jesus saying "I and the Father are one" as a claim of being God, and I happen to agree with them.

Joh 10:31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.
Joh 10:32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?
Joh 10:33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

This "god" is Theos - which just as Elohiym - also means JUDGE. They are angry that he is calling himself the MESSIAH - a JUDGE of Israel - higher in rank then them.

That is just a bad interpretation, Ingle. Real bad. First off, they said they were stoning him for BLASPHEMY, because by him claiming that him and the Father are "one", he is claiming to be God.

So they gave the REASON why they were stoning him, Ingle. This is a clear case of someone adding false interpretation to the scriptures. Why do I need you to tell me why they are angry with him, when I am reading directly from THEM why they are angry with him? I mean, it is right there!!!

Second, even if Jesus was calling himself a "judge of Israel", that still wouldn't have been grounds for a stoning death, because calling yourself a judge of Israel is not a blasphemous claim. But calling yourself God is, which is EXACTLY why they were about to stone him.

So please...don't.

Joh 10:36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?


Joh 10:37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.
Joh 10:38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.

Note here that he does not say he is God.

He doesn't say that he isn't, either.
 

Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
Pegg,
Moses was not a saviour. Does it say anywhere in the NWT that Moses was a saviour?

it says that God sent Moses to deliver the Isrealites from slavery. Acts 7:35 This same Moses whom they had disowned, saying: ‘Who appointed you ruler and judge?’ is the very one God sent as both ruler and deliverer by means of the angel who appeared to him in the thornbush.

So in that way, he was sent as a savior.

Exodus 3:9 Now look! The outcry of the people of Israel has reached me, and I have seen also the harsh way that the Egyptians are oppressing them. 10 Now come, I will send you to Phar′aoh, and you will bring my people the Israelites out of Egypt.”


This commission made him a Christ/Annointed according to Hebrews 11:24 By faith Moses, when grown up, refused to be called the son of Phar′aoh’s daughter, 25 choosing to be mistreated with the people of God rather than to have the temporary enjoyment of sin, 26 because he considered the reproach of the Christ to be riches greater than the treasures of Egypt, for he looked intently toward the payment of the reward.

I think we can safely say that any Isrealite who refused to follow Moses did not obtain a salvation for even after they left egypt, some Isrealites began to complain against Moses and God struck them down. Once they were in the wilderness, there were many occasions which showed that their lives were dependent on obedience to Moses. The scriptures say that the Isrealites were 'baptised into Moses' just as Christians are baptised into Jesus.
1Cor 10:1 Now I want you to know, brothers, that our forefathers were all under the cloud and all passed through the sea 2 and all got baptized into Moses by means of the cloud and of the sea



2 Peter 1:17 refers to a time when God spoke to Jesus, his only begotten son.

We seem to agree that whilst on earth Jesus Christ was a sinless man filled with the Holy Spirit. This is what I call being fully God and fully man. You have difficulty with this. Nevertheless, once raised to heaven, as incorruptible spirit, surely you too must think he is worthy of worship?

Philippians 2:5-10
'Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.'

Why would everything in heaven and earth 'bow the knee' if not in worship?

but i dont view 'bow the knee' as a call to worship.

It is a profound reverence and respect for Jesus, yes. But it is not worship. If it ever became worship, then that would discount a person from having Gods approval. And it is not actually showing proper respect and obedience to Jesus because Jesus said that we must worship Jehovah God alone:

Matt 4:10 Then Jesus said to him: “Go away, Satan! For it is written: ‘It is Jehovah your God you must worship, and it is to him alone you must render sacred service.’”

If we are truly obedient to Jesus, we will render our worship to Jehovah alone and no one else.
 
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Ingledsva

HEATHEN ALASKAN
Ingledsva said:
ING - Actually Jesus quotes a text where God calls the Judges of Israel Elohiym (Psalm 82:6.) Elohiym when used with humans, means chosen of God = little "gods," Royalty appointed by God - Kings, Princes, Magistrates/Judges, etc.
Joh 10:31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.
Joh 10:32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?
Joh 10:33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

I am actually talking about the above scriptures, where Jesus was accused of calling himself God. This is the same one you quoted below.


ING - Did you miss the whole bottom of # 49?


Ingledsva said:
I've read all the ones you folks post. So where are these verses?
Just take any scripture that Trinitarians use to make a case for the Trinity, and compare the NWT's rendering of the verses with any other bible besides their own, and tell me what do you see.

....


LOL! I'm not going searching for verses I know don't exist. You claim they do - so show me.


*
 

Ingledsva

HEATHEN ALASKAN
...


We know that the Father is called God, so the only question is whether Jesus or the Holy Spirit are called God.

Jesus is called God
27 Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe.”
28 Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”
29 Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”


ING - Judges are called Elohiym - that doesn't make them actual Gods.


The word in 28 is "Theos" which also means magistrate, master, etc.


Doubting Thomas - didn't believe it was Jesus. "my Lord and my Master."


You folks always forget the last line.



Joh 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.


Again - Jesus is claiming to be the awaited MESSIAH - whom IS NOT a God. He is a Special/Singular HUMAN from the Line of David.



**



Holy Spirit is called God
Act 5:3 Then Peter said, “Ananias, how is it that Satan has so filled your heart that you have lied to the Holy Spirit and have kept for yourself some of the money you received for the land? 4 Didn’t it belong to you before it was sold? And after it was sold, wasn’t the money at your disposal? What made you think of doing such a thing? You have not lied just to human beings but to God.”



ING - Act 4:26 The kings of the earth stood up, and the rulers were gathered together against the Lord, and against his Christ.

Again - differentiation between GOD and the Messiah.

The "Holy Spirit" is a power function of God - not a being.




**


Ingledsva said:
Joh 10:24 Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly.
Joh 10:25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.


They make it plain here that the subject is him claiming to be the MESSIAH - the ultimate LAST JUDGE of Israel.
So just because he is is claiming to be the the Messiah, that mean that he isn't God? So just because we call Cassius Clay (his birth name) Muhammad Ali, that mean that he isn't Cassius Clay? Hmmm.



ING - The awaited Messiah is a HUMAN from the Line of David.

Again - nowhere does it actually say Jesus is GOD.



**


Ingledsva said:
Joh 10:29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
Greater in terms of what? Position. At a school, the principal is greater than every person within the domain of the school. No one is greater than the position..no teacher, no secretary, no counselor, no student. But is principal any greater of a human being than anyone else in the school? No. When we say that Jesus is God, we are talking about his Deity, not his position/role...as Phil 2:5-9 indicates.


ING - What? It is saying GOD is greater then ALL.

Jesus is not God, he is a Son of God, as are ALL the appointed of Israel.



Ingledsva said:
Joh 10:30 I and my Father are one.
(As One, The President and I are one/as one. in complete agreement.)
Once Jesus said "I and the Father are one", the Jews picked up stones to stone him...and they said they were stoning him because he claimed to be God. So the Jews understood Jesus saying "I and the Father are one" as a claim of being God, and I happen to agree with them.


ING - Quit taking them one at a time, out of context. I showed in #49 that they are NOT calling Jesus God.


Ingledsva said:
Joh 10:31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.
Joh 10:32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?
Joh 10:33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

This "god" is Theos - which just as Elohiym - also means JUDGE. They are angry that he is calling himself the MESSIAH - a JUDGE of Israel - higher in rank then them.
That is just a bad interpretation, Ingle. Real bad. First off, they said they were stoning him for BLASPHEMY, because by him claiming that him and the Father are "one", he is claiming to be God.

So they gave the REASON why they were stoning him, Ingle. This is a clear case of someone adding false interpretation to the scriptures. Why do I need you to tell me why they are angry with him, when I am reading directly from THEM why they are angry with him? I mean, it is right there!!!

Second, even if Jesus was calling himself a "judge of Israel", that still wouldn't have been grounds for a stoning death, because calling yourself a judge of Israel is not a blasphemous claim. But calling yourself God is, which is EXACTLY why they were about to stone him.

So please...don't.


ING - BALONEY! Him going to Temples and groups NAMING HIMSELF the awaited Messiah/a Magistrate of Israel with that power - judging THEM - the Appointed (by God) Priests - would obviously be blasphemy to them, and to the people.

Go back and read the whole thing in context. Jesus is not God. He claims to be the Messiah - an awaited special HUMAN, sent by God.



Ingledsva said:
Joh 10:36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

Joh 10:37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.
Joh 10:38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.

Note here that he does not say he is God.

He doesn't say that he isn't, either.


He tells us he is the MESSIAH - Sanctified - and SENT - by GOD.

You also seem to have missed something in those sentences from Jesus -

He corrects them - and says SON of God.

And as I have shown over-and-over, from the Bible, ALL of the people of Israel are Sons of God.


Jesus is claiming to be the Special/Singular awaited Son of God - The Messiah - a special human from the Line of David.



*
 
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Desert Snake

Veteran Member
And as I have shown over-and-over, from the Bible, ALL of the people of Israel are Sons of God.


Jesus is claiming to be the Special/Singular awaited Son of God - The Messiah - a special human from the Line of David.



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Contradiction.....So you don't really think that title is just a general one, why bring up the extra reference, for confusion?
Again, it doesn't matter how 'we' view it, it matters what Scripture says.
 

Call_of_the_Wild

Well-Known Member
He tells us he is the MESSIAH - Sanctified - and SENT - by GOD.

You also seem to have missed something in those sentences from Jesus -

He corrects them - and says SON of God.

The problem is, they wanted to stone him for saying he was the Son of God, too.

John 19:7
But Pilate answered, “You take him and crucify him. As for me, I find no basis for a charge against him.”
7 The Jewish leaders insisted, “We have a law, and according to that law he must die, because he claimed to be the Son of God

So according to Jewish law, to even call yourself the Son of God, you are worthy of death.


And as I have shown over-and-over, from the Bible, ALL of the people of Israel are Sons of God.
Jesus is claiming to be the Special/Singular awaited Son of God - The Messiah - a special human from the Line of David.

So calling yourself a "special human" is speaking blasphemy? Based on what law? Not the Jewish law. But guess what, calling yourself God..equal to God, or God's Son in the way that Jesus said it, THAT would have been blasphemy, had it not been the truth.
 

Ingledsva

HEATHEN ALASKAN
Ingledsva said:
And as I have shown over-and-over, from the Bible, ALL of the people of Israel are Sons of God.


Jesus is claiming to be the Special/Singular awaited Son of God - The Messiah - a special human from the Line of David.
Contradiction.....So you don't really think that title is just a general one, why bring up the extra reference, for confusion?
Again, it doesn't matter how 'we' view it, it matters what Scripture says.


What contradiction are you talking about?


He is not God.


They call him the Messiah/Anointed - Jesus Christ


He is claiming to be the awaited Jewish Messiah - they make this very plain by referencing him to the Moses verse.


That Jewish Messiah is a Special/Singular Son of God (all Israel are Sons of God) through the HUMAN Line of David.


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Desert Snake

Veteran Member
What contradiction are you talking about?


He is not God.


They call him the Messiah/Anointed - Jesus Christ


He is claiming to be the awaited Jewish Messiah - they make this very plain by referencing him to the Moses verse.


That Jewish Messiah is a Special/Singular Son of God (all Israel are Sons of God) through the HUMAN Line of David.


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Yes, Jesus the man is part human. That's why He has a mother, works, walks around etc.
Where did I say otherwise? I didn't.
But....Jesus is also divine, that's what the Spirit is with Him, it makes Him different from us. Being with Spirit means reflection of God, anyways , we've been through this.

bye
 

Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
Yes, Jesus the man is part human. That's why He has a mother, works, walks around etc.
Where did I say otherwise? I didn't.
But....Jesus is also divine, that's what the Spirit is with Him, it makes Him different from us. Being with Spirit means reflection of God, anyways , we've been through this.

bye

we can all be the reflection of God by imitating him and obeying him. That doesnt mean that we are God though, does it?
 
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