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JWs, please answer!

Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
Great, but not in translations where they purposely change everything to the English 'God' or 'Lord'.

true. Not all translators respect the tetragrammaton enough to let their readers know where it is located in the verses so they replace it with Lord or God...usually they capitalise it though to distinguish it from the normal 'god' and 'lord' which are titles which can apply to many.

However, the KJV and a few others have always had the name in 2 or 3 places....one being Psalm 83:18

King James Version (KJV)
18 That men may know that thou, whose name alone is Jehovah, art the most high over all the earth.
 
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savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Hosea 13:4
NWT
4 But I am Jehovah your God from the land of Egypt; You knew no God except me, And besides me there is no savior.

KJV:
4 Yet I am the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me: for there is no saviour beside me.


Luke 2:11
For today there was born to you in David’s city a savior, who is Christ the Lord.


May i ask if you are wondering if Jesus is the same savior as mentioned in Hosea?

I think he might be wondering if your governing body is.
 

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
So, Elohim=God, JHVH=Lord. That's what I've gathered , for standard translation, I guess. I would rather just have the actual names used.
 
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no-body

Well-Known Member
true. Not all translators respect the tetragrammaton enough to let their readers know where it is located in the verses so they replace it with Lord or God...usually they capitalise it though to distinguish it from the normal 'god' and 'lord' which are titles which can apply to many.

However, the KJV and a few others have always had the name in 2 or 3 places....one being Psalm 83:18

King James Version (KJV)
18 That men may know that thou, whose name alone is Jehovah, art the most high over all the earth.

The reason it was left out was a better safe than sorry rational "thou shalt not take the name of the lord thy god vain"

You can't do that if keep the name to the scribes.
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
The reason it was left out was a better safe than sorry rational "thou shalt not take the name of the lord thy god vain"

You can't do that if keep the name to the scribes.

I don't think there is much of a difference between saying "Jehovah sent us with this message" (if the message is wrong) and saying "The God of Jesus sent us with this message (if the message is wrong).

In both case the Name of YHVH or "Jehovah" will be proved false. The Name of YHVH, whatever it is, is to be held in high esteem, but if the messages from YHVH prove false, then God's name be smeared honestly.
 

Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
So, Elohim=God, JHVH=Lord. That's what I've gathered , for standard translation, I guess. I would rather just have the actual names used.

Elohim = God
Adonai = Lord
YHWH (tetragrammaton) = JHVH or Jehovah

Yes i agree. Why wouldnt anyone want to use the name correctly and why remove it entirely?

Its not right. It would be like rubbing out the signature off a painting and putting another name in its place.
 

Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
The reason it was left out was a better safe than sorry rational "thou shalt not take the name of the lord thy god vain"

You can't do that if keep the name to the scribes.

The people who matter dont take the name in vain.

Look how many times the prophets used the name...they did not try to hide it from anyone nor were they afraid to use it.
 

Redemptionsong

Well-Known Member
Pegg, if God the Father 'commissioned' Jesus to be a saviour, are there many other saviours? You mention that Moses saved his people. Moses saved his people from slavery in Egypt. What did Jesus save his people from? How was this achieved?
 

Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
Pegg, if God the Father 'commissioned' Jesus to be a saviour, are there many other saviours? You mention that Moses saved his people. Moses saved his people from slavery in Egypt. What did Jesus save his people from? How was this achieved?

There are no other saviors besides Jesus, no.

The role that he is fulfilling is the role that will eventually lead mankind back to perfection and back into full harmony with God and his laws.

2,000 years ago, Jesus laid down his life to uphold Gods sovereignty and answer a universal issue raised by Gods enemy. Thereafter , the value of his perfect life was given to mankind, by God, to make atonement for their own sins.
Colossians 1:13, 14 He rescued us from the authority of the darkness and transferred us into the kingdom of his beloved Son, 14 by means of whom we have our release by ransom, the forgiveness of our sins


And for Jesus faithful service, God promoted him to the position above all others as the head of the kingdom of heaven....
Ephesians 1:20 which he exercised toward Christ when he raised him up from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly places, 21 far above every government and authority and power and lordship and every name that is named, not only in this system of things but also in that to come.



from that position, Jesus has been enlightening mankind as to what is required of them to attain to salvation from death. That message has been preached into all the earth to all nations....
Matthew 28:19 Go, therefore, and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you. And look! I am with you all the days until the conclusion of the system of things.”

and very soon, Jesus will take action against Gods enemies.
Revelation 19:11 I saw heaven opened, and look! a white horse. And the one seated on it is called Faithful and True, and he judges and carries on war in righteousness.

And the best part, is that after Christ has conquered, mankind will be set free from the suffering of this world because the one who is causing all the strife will be gone, and God will restore mankind to the way he originally purposed life to be:
Revelation 21:3 With that I heard a loud voice from the throne say: “Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his people. And God himself will be with them. 4 And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.”
5 And the One seated on the throne said: “Look! I am making all things new.” Also he says: “Write, for these words are faithful and true



All this will be possible because of what Christ did 2,000 years ago, and because of what he will do in the very (very) near future. :)
 

Redemptionsong

Well-Known Member
Pegg I need to be clear about this. So, please have patience with me.

In Hosea, it states that there is only one Saviour. That is God. You say that Jesus is Saviour. In my book, that makes Jesus God. He may be the son of God, but he is still fully God as well as fully man.

Because Jesus is fully God, he is worthy of worship. Do you believe this?

Do you also believe that the Holy Spirit, which Jesus came to baptise with, is also the spirit of God? If it is, then that spirit is the same spirit that exists in the Father. Do you agree?
 

Call_of_the_Wild

Well-Known Member
According to the New World Translation of the Bible, what does Hosea 13:4 say? I do not possess a NWT.

Never trust the NWT. No "Christian" demonination, cult, or otherwise has went through such lengths to change/modify/revise the bible to fit their theological agenda than the good ole Jehovah's Witnesses.
 

Ingledsva

HEATHEN ALASKAN
Pegg I need to be clear about this. So, please have patience with me.

In Hosea, it states that there is only one Saviour. That is God. You say that Jesus is Saviour. In my book, that makes Jesus God. He may be the son of God, but he is still fully God as well as fully man.

Because Jesus is fully God, he is worthy of worship. Do you believe this?

Do you also believe that the Holy Spirit, which Jesus came to baptise with, is also the spirit of God? If it is, then that spirit is the same spirit that exists in the Father. Do you agree?

The Bible does not say Jesus is God. He is claiming to be the awaited Messiah, - whom is a special singular human Messiah, sent by God.


*
 

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
The Bible does not say Jesus is God. He is claiming to be the awaited Messiah, - whom is a special singular human Messiah, sent by God.


*

No, you're reading it in that context. It's all confirmation bias for you. You need to read the bible in the context of HOW CHRISTIANS ACTUALLY BELIEVE/PRACTICE their religion.
 

Ingledsva

HEATHEN ALASKAN
No, you're reading it in that context. It's all confirmation bias for you. You need to read the bible in the context of HOW CHRISTIANS ACTUALLY BELIEVE/PRACTICE their religion.


What Christians believe - does not change the wording in the Bible - or the fact that Jesus would have been a Jew, believing in ONE God, - no trinity.


Jesus as God, and the trinity ideas, are from misreading and or mistranslating the text.


There is nowhere in there where it actually says Jesus is God, or that there is a trinity.




*
 

Call_of_the_Wild

Well-Known Member
What Christians believe - does not change the wording in the Bible - or the fact that Jesus would have been a Jew, believing in ONE God, - no trinity.

Jesus was accused of calling himself God, and he never denied those accusations. Hmmm.

Jesus as God, and the trinity ideas, are from misreading and or mistranslating the text.

Or a correct translation and accurate readings.

There is nowhere in there where it actually says Jesus is God, or that there is a trinity.

There is scriptural evidence that all three persons within the Trinity were all called "God" at some point in time in the bible.
 

Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
Pegg I need to be clear about this. So, please have patience with me.

In Hosea, it states that there is only one Saviour. That is God. You say that Jesus is Saviour. In my book, that makes Jesus God. He may be the son of God, but he is still fully God as well as fully man.

Because Jesus is fully God, he is worthy of worship. Do you believe this?

No i dont. Not even Jesus believed that. Nor did his disciples who wrote down his life and teachings for us.
Does this verse sound like a man who is convinced that Jesus is God Almighty?

2Peter 1:17 For he received from God the Father honor and glory when words such as these were conveyed to him by the magnificent glory: “This is my Son, my beloved, whom I myself have approved.” 18 Yes, these words we heard coming from heaven while we were with him in the holy mountain.


We call ourselves 'Jehovahs Witnesses' because we believe that God is our savior. Jesus is our King and redeemer and high priest.... but he is not our God. He is a savior in the same way Moses was a savior...the mediator between God and man. If God sent someone to help you, that person is acting on Gods behalf and God himself is your savior, right?



Do you also believe that the Holy Spirit, which Jesus came to baptise with, is also the spirit of God? If it is, then that spirit is the same spirit that exists in the Father. Do you agree?

I believe that the holy spirit is from God and comes from God..... but it is not a person as some believe.
 
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