Most my claims are personal opinions from experience and so forth. Stats, averages, and so forth that would be nice to use with the best of them but on RF, I'd have to have a good progressive conversation to really go into it. Takes too much brain effort on my part.
Oh. I can see it if you said blood transfusions do work, but we choose not to because of our faith. I still don't understand it but it's very different than not going through with the treatment because the X amount of people weren't successful with it.
Oh. You know what you mean, but you can't put it in words.
Hockeycowboy answered that.
I had to read this again. I don't know how to answer this because the truth I believe in (to call it that) is the value of life and living rather than the act of "dying for" something/someone. How to say. Living Is my truth so sacrificing myself is pretty much counterproductive to living that truth.
Living is your truth. Okay.
If there were not eternal life (or perfect earth hereafter?) would there still be a value in dying for your truth?
dying for your truth?
Translating, to my language.
If there was no eternal life, would I live my life as I am?
If there was no sure promise of everlasting life, it's likely the only life would be one, you guys live - hopeless, purposeless, just existing.
That's how I was before I knew the truth, so that's how I would be, if the truth I know, was not... Or, I would be dead and buried, eaten by maggots and nonexistent.
That doesn't look too pretty.
Had to do with the doctor discussion. Disregard.
I actually never used the word truth before but just doing so for the conversation. Your life and living is a value or truth in itself. So whatever you do, say, and believe is a conduit to that life. It's the whole shabang. So, if you die for the sake of something or someone, you're taking your life (that truth) and throwing it away. The truth is in the living not the dying.
I guess I prefer the greater truth then, than the inferior one, most people have.
It's not a case of choosing death though. It's rather the opposite - It's a case of choosing life - the real life.
(1 Timothy 6:19) . . .safely treasuring up for themselves a fine foundation for the future, so that they may get a firm hold on the real life.
So I can't die for "my" truth because it would be contradicting the very thing I value: life.
Here is a challenge for you. Can you demonstrate that you value life.
I guess there is honor to die for god. It's hard to understand how you can give your life up for something or someone outside yourself.
Oh?
Do you mean you can't understand how you can die for someone you love?
Didn't you earlier talk about people you love... Would you not give your life for any one of them?
Or do you mean you can't understand why you would need to?
I can certainly understand that, since most people evidently do not understand the depth of love.
(John 15:13) 13 No one has love greater than this, that someone should surrender his life in behalf of his friends.
(John 10:14-18)
14 I am the fine shepherd. I know my sheep and my sheep know me,
15 just as the Father knows me and I know the Father; and I surrender my life in behalf of the sheep.
16 “And I have other sheep, which are not of this fold; those too I must bring in, and they will listen to my voice, and they will become one flock, one shepherd.
17 This is why the Father loves me, because I surrender my life, so that I may receive it again.
18 No man takes it away from me, but I surrender it of my own initiative. I have authority to surrender it, and I have authority to receive it again. This commandment I received from my Father.”
How does god owe your allegiance?
Not just your service and faith but your life?
Have you ever heard someone say, "I owe you my life", or "I owe my life to you"?
Why do they say that?
Because of something most people don't have, nor think they should have... Gratitude.
I am grateful to the creator, for life. I owe him my life. Not only because God created life, but God provided the means by which I can have life, in abundance.
(John 10:10) . . .I have come that they may have life and have it in abundance.
God is the source of my life, and it is because of him that I am alive today.
Had I not found the truth, I believe I might not be alive today.
You already have life. It's not given. You were born into, live, and out of life. (In my opinion
).
Okay.
You asked "Could you tell me of those thousands of JW who have not had great reward from evangelizing?"
It seemed you're commenting with a question rather statement to agree or disagree with what I said originally. There are many people who did not benefit from JW evangelizing.
I see where I was going with this. It's the same as my saying that X number of patients have success with blood transfusions. You mentioned there are those that are not successful. So, I used the same logic that even though there is a lot of success in JW evangelization, there is also a lot of unsuccessful attempts.
Oh. I see.
You mixed up your words, so I didn't understand you.
The way you worded it, was to say that JWs themselves were not rewarded for their evangelizing.
What you really meant to say, was that people JWs spoke to, were not rewarded.
Is that correct?
I think you have the idea that we are comparing success rates with blood transfusions, and bloodless medicine, and using that as a basis for our position.
However, I have to tell you Artist, it's beyond me where you got an idea like that.
Two sided story.
Maybe it's more of a fallacy rather than deflecting: proving your point or I'm wrong by asking me something quite vague it's impossible to prove. There are so many people in the world how can I possible know who JW succeeded in getting to come to christ and who not. All I know is from my personal experience and other people off and on RF, there tends to be a consensus with JW and LDS etc to really want people to come to christ despite acknowledging that it's just not for every person. I don't know how to explain it. In my opinion, evangelizing is unethical.
It was a mistake... on your part.
You fuddled you statement.
No problem. You already explained.
I usually don't say I don't believe in christ, god, or so have you because christians tend to change their conversation. It becomes one-sided. I know some christians who literally cut off conversation as if they didn't want to throw pearls to swine. (if you get my reference)
Understood.
The reason I don't agree with jesus isn't because I knew him or anything like that. Actually "disagreeing with jesus" wouldn't be a good way to put it. Disagreeing with what's written in the bible or what the bible says about jesus and his teachings, I disagree with. Christians tend to talk of jesus as if they met him. I haven't so all my references is what I read in scripture rather than from personal relationship with him.
Okay. So which Jesus do you not disagree with - the Muslim version, or other?
I've seen those pictures in the WatchTower Magazine. Is that how you guys picture the earth would be like when resurrected?
These are actually "pictures painted" in the scriptures, which our artists take from the pages and "bring to life" in living color.
Every illustration you see in our publication - except where it is beyond the first century, is taken from the scriptures.
The ones I posted, are from...
(Psalm 37:10, 11)
10 Just a little while longer, and the wicked will be no more; You will look at where they were, And they will not be there.
11 But the meek will possess the earth, And they will find exquisite delight in the abundance of peace.
(Psalm 72:16) . . .There will be an abundance of grain on the earth; On the top of the mountains it will overflow. His fruit will flourish as in Lebanon, And in the cities people will blossom like the vegetation of the earth.
(Isaiah 11:6-9)
6 The wolf will reside for a while with the lamb, And with the young goat the leopard will lie down, And the calf and the lion and the fattened animal will all be together; And a little boy will lead them.
7 The cow and the bear will feed together, And their young will lie down together. The lion will eat straw like the bull.
8 The nursing child will play over the lair of a cobra, And a weaned child will put his hand over the den of a poisonous snake.
9 They will not cause any harm Or any ruin in all my holy mountain, Because the earth will certainly be filled with the knowledge of Jehovah As the waters cover the sea.
(Isaiah 65:21-25)
21 They will build houses and live in them, And they will plant vineyards and eat their fruitage.
22 They will not build for someone else to inhabit, Nor will they plant for others to eat. For the days of my people will be like the days of a tree, And the work of their hands my chosen ones will enjoy to the full.
23 They will not toil for nothing, Nor will they bear children for distress, Because they are the offspring made up of those blessed by Jehovah, And their descendants with them.
24 Even before they call out, I will answer; While they are yet speaking, I will hear.
25 The wolf and the lamb will feed together, The lion will eat straw just like the bull, And the serpent’s food will be dust. They will do no harm nor cause any ruin in all my holy mountain,” says Jehovah.
(Revelation 7:16, 17)
16 They will hunger no more nor thirst anymore, neither will the sun beat down on them nor any scorching heat,
17 because the Lamb, who is in the midst of the throne, will shepherd them and will guide them to springs of waters of life. And God will wipe out every tear from their eyes.”
There are a lot more...
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