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JW and people's safety

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
regarding masks: Even if they might not protect us, we wear them, to protect others.

That would mean if you don't have symptoms and the illness you don't need to wear a mask. ;) I think it's for both. We don't know who has the illness, so we wear it for ourselves. We don't want others to get it (those who feel they are asymptomatic) so they wear it for others. Just sayin'
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Understood.


Could we forget about doctors for now. I think we need to get things in proper perspective and focus.


Oh yes. You are having trouble seeing. :D
Please, what do you mean by "but we choose not to out of faith"?
That way I can better understand what you are seeing.


I don't understand the first part. Or maybe I do.
What do you mean by your family is your truth? Do you mean that you don't know of anything else more important than those you love?
I think I understand.
So which religion, or spiritual path do you follow, and how do you receive spiritual guidance?
May I ask what do you know about your God, and how?
I ask this since you said you "value life-so religion, spirituality, etc-wouldn't go against that".

Tell me please. Sacrificing self. Would this count as sacrificing self?
(Matthew 10:21, 22) 21 Further, brother will deliver up brother to death, and a father his child, and children will rise up against parents and will have them put to death. 22 And YOU will be objects of hatred by all people on account of my name; but he that has endured to the end is the one that will be saved.

Yes. I think so too.
I think a person willing to give up the things in this world, and commit to serving God - speaking of the one I know of - has made a sacrifice, which may also involve his physical life.
This is a choice I have made. I love how 1 John 2:15-17 puts it. There is also
(Matthew 16:24-27) 24 Then Jesus said to his disciples: “If anyone wants to come after me, let him disown himself and pick up his torture stake and continually follow me. 25 For whoever wants to save his soul will lose it; but whoever loses his soul for my sake will find it. 26 For what benefit will it be to a man if he gains the whole world but forfeits his soul? or what will a man give in exchange for his soul? 27 For the Son of man is destined to come in the glory of his Father with his angels, and then he will recompense each one according to his behavior. (Mark 8:34-38)


You are missing the point. Why? :shrug:


Sorry. What do you mean by "your truth is life"? Do you mean "your truth means life"?
If that is what you mean, can you explain, again, so that I can understand what you are seeing. How would one's truth mean life?

Ah. i got it!
Looking back at what you said about those you love.
Hmm. God is love. There is no one greater in love than Jehovah. He is my life.
(Deuteronomy 32:47) . . .For this is no empty word for you, but it means your life. . .
What that means speaking on fleshly level. No one on this earth can give me life now, or everlastingly - not family, not friend, not doctors.
They all die don't they?
(Psalm 146:3-6) 3 Do not put YOUR trust in nobles, Nor in the son of earthling man, to whom no salvation belongs. 4 His spirit goes out, he goes back to his ground; In that day his thoughts do perish. 5 Happy is the one who has the God of Jacob for his help, Whose hope is in Jehovah his God, 6 The Maker of heaven and earth, Of the sea, and of all that is in them, The One keeping trueness to time indefinite,

Hence I rather live my life, with eternity in view, instead of a few fleeting moments of pleasure in this world.
Some people feel that it does not matter how one lives, because they think that God will still give them life. However the Bible says that God blots people's name out of his "book of remembrance". (Revelation 3:5)

That means that there are many people, past, and present, who are not in God's memory, or as Jesus called it, "the ,memorial tombs". (John 5:28, 29)
They will not be living in the Paradise to come on earth... forever.
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Any diagnostic or therapeutic procedure that involves spiritism.


Whoa.
Deflection from what?
You made a direct statement.
There are thousands of JW who have not had great rewards from JW evangelization.
That's not true. So how can one deflect from a point that apparently has no point? :D
Maybe next time, make sure it's more than a claim, which evidently you cannot support. ;) Or can you?

So could you tell me of those thousands of JW who have not had great reward from evangelizing?


Okay. So you disagree with the methods of Jesus in the Bible.
I'll remember that Artist. I did not know this before. Now I know.
Remember, I don't see every post you make, so you might have made that clear to others, but not to me.


That's not the point, is it?
If it's the point, perhaps I am losing the whole point of your argument.


I think so. :)

I've seen those pictures in the WatchTower Magazine. Is that how you guys picture the earth would be like when resurrected?
 

nPeace

Veteran Member
Most my claims are personal opinions from experience and so forth. Stats, averages, and so forth that would be nice to use with the best of them but on RF, I'd have to have a good progressive conversation to really go into it. Takes too much brain effort on my part.


Oh. I can see it if you said blood transfusions do work, but we choose not to because of our faith. I still don't understand it but it's very different than not going through with the treatment because the X amount of people weren't successful with it.
Oh. You know what you mean, but you can't put it in words. :)
Hockeycowboy answered that.

I had to read this again. I don't know how to answer this because the truth I believe in (to call it that) is the value of life and living rather than the act of "dying for" something/someone. How to say. Living Is my truth so sacrificing myself is pretty much counterproductive to living that truth.
Living is your truth. Okay.

If there were not eternal life (or perfect earth hereafter?) would there still be a value in dying for your truth?
dying for your truth?
Translating, to my language. :)
If there was no eternal life, would I live my life as I am?
If there was no sure promise of everlasting life, it's likely the only life would be one, you guys live - hopeless, purposeless, just existing.
That's how I was before I knew the truth, so that's how I would be, if the truth I know, was not... Or, I would be dead and buried, eaten by maggots and nonexistent.
That doesn't look too pretty. ;)

Had to do with the doctor discussion. Disregard.

I actually never used the word truth before but just doing so for the conversation. Your life and living is a value or truth in itself. So whatever you do, say, and believe is a conduit to that life. It's the whole shabang. So, if you die for the sake of something or someone, you're taking your life (that truth) and throwing it away. The truth is in the living not the dying.
I guess I prefer the greater truth then, than the inferior one, most people have.
It's not a case of choosing death though. It's rather the opposite - It's a case of choosing life - the real life.
(1 Timothy 6:19) . . .safely treasuring up for themselves a fine foundation for the future, so that they may get a firm hold on the real life.

So I can't die for "my" truth because it would be contradicting the very thing I value: life.
Here is a challenge for you. Can you demonstrate that you value life.

I guess there is honor to die for god. It's hard to understand how you can give your life up for something or someone outside yourself.
Oh?
Do you mean you can't understand how you can die for someone you love?
Didn't you earlier talk about people you love... Would you not give your life for any one of them?
Or do you mean you can't understand why you would need to?

I can certainly understand that, since most people evidently do not understand the depth of love.
(John 15:13) 13 No one has love greater than this, that someone should surrender his life in behalf of his friends.

(John 10:14-18) 14 I am the fine shepherd. I know my sheep and my sheep know me, 15 just as the Father knows me and I know the Father; and I surrender my life in behalf of the sheep. 16 “And I have other sheep, which are not of this fold; those too I must bring in, and they will listen to my voice, and they will become one flock, one shepherd. 17 This is why the Father loves me, because I surrender my life, so that I may receive it again. 18 No man takes it away from me, but I surrender it of my own initiative. I have authority to surrender it, and I have authority to receive it again. This commandment I received from my Father.”

How does god owe your allegiance?
Not just your service and faith but your life?
Have you ever heard someone say, "I owe you my life", or "I owe my life to you"?
Why do they say that?
Because of something most people don't have, nor think they should have... Gratitude.
I am grateful to the creator, for life. I owe him my life. Not only because God created life, but God provided the means by which I can have life, in abundance.
(John 10:10) . . .I have come that they may have life and have it in abundance.

God is the source of my life, and it is because of him that I am alive today.
Had I not found the truth, I believe I might not be alive today.

You already have life. It's not given. You were born into, live, and out of life. (In my opinion ;)).
Okay.

You asked "Could you tell me of those thousands of JW who have not had great reward from evangelizing?"

It seemed you're commenting with a question rather statement to agree or disagree with what I said originally. There are many people who did not benefit from JW evangelizing.

I see where I was going with this. It's the same as my saying that X number of patients have success with blood transfusions. You mentioned there are those that are not successful. So, I used the same logic that even though there is a lot of success in JW evangelization, there is also a lot of unsuccessful attempts.
Oh. I see.
You mixed up your words, so I didn't understand you.
The way you worded it, was to say that JWs themselves were not rewarded for their evangelizing.
What you really meant to say, was that people JWs spoke to, were not rewarded.
Is that correct?

I think you have the idea that we are comparing success rates with blood transfusions, and bloodless medicine, and using that as a basis for our position.
However, I have to tell you Artist, it's beyond me where you got an idea like that.

Two sided story.

Maybe it's more of a fallacy rather than deflecting: proving your point or I'm wrong by asking me something quite vague it's impossible to prove. There are so many people in the world how can I possible know who JW succeeded in getting to come to christ and who not. All I know is from my personal experience and other people off and on RF, there tends to be a consensus with JW and LDS etc to really want people to come to christ despite acknowledging that it's just not for every person. I don't know how to explain it. In my opinion, evangelizing is unethical.
It was a mistake... on your part.
You fuddled you statement.
No problem. You already explained.

I usually don't say I don't believe in christ, god, or so have you because christians tend to change their conversation. It becomes one-sided. I know some christians who literally cut off conversation as if they didn't want to throw pearls to swine. (if you get my reference)
Understood.

The reason I don't agree with jesus isn't because I knew him or anything like that. Actually "disagreeing with jesus" wouldn't be a good way to put it. Disagreeing with what's written in the bible or what the bible says about jesus and his teachings, I disagree with. Christians tend to talk of jesus as if they met him. I haven't so all my references is what I read in scripture rather than from personal relationship with him.
Okay. So which Jesus do you not disagree with - the Muslim version, or other?

I've seen those pictures in the WatchTower Magazine. Is that how you guys picture the earth would be like when resurrected?
These are actually "pictures painted" in the scriptures, which our artists take from the pages and "bring to life" in living color.

Every illustration you see in our publication - except where it is beyond the first century, is taken from the scriptures.

The ones I posted, are from...
(Psalm 37:10, 11) 10 Just a little while longer, and the wicked will be no more; You will look at where they were, And they will not be there. 11 But the meek will possess the earth, And they will find exquisite delight in the abundance of peace.

(Psalm 72:16) . . .There will be an abundance of grain on the earth; On the top of the mountains it will overflow. His fruit will flourish as in Lebanon, And in the cities people will blossom like the vegetation of the earth.

(Isaiah 11:6-9) 6 The wolf will reside for a while with the lamb, And with the young goat the leopard will lie down, And the calf and the lion and the fattened animal will all be together; And a little boy will lead them. 7 The cow and the bear will feed together, And their young will lie down together. The lion will eat straw like the bull. 8 The nursing child will play over the lair of a cobra, And a weaned child will put his hand over the den of a poisonous snake. 9 They will not cause any harm Or any ruin in all my holy mountain, Because the earth will certainly be filled with the knowledge of Jehovah As the waters cover the sea.

(Isaiah 65:21-25) 21 They will build houses and live in them, And they will plant vineyards and eat their fruitage. 22 They will not build for someone else to inhabit, Nor will they plant for others to eat. For the days of my people will be like the days of a tree, And the work of their hands my chosen ones will enjoy to the full. 23 They will not toil for nothing, Nor will they bear children for distress, Because they are the offspring made up of those blessed by Jehovah, And their descendants with them. 24 Even before they call out, I will answer; While they are yet speaking, I will hear. 25 The wolf and the lamb will feed together, The lion will eat straw just like the bull, And the serpent’s food will be dust. They will do no harm nor cause any ruin in all my holy mountain,” says Jehovah.

(Revelation 7:16, 17) 16 They will hunger no more nor thirst anymore, neither will the sun beat down on them nor any scorching heat, 17 because the Lamb, who is in the midst of the throne, will shepherd them and will guide them to springs of waters of life. And God will wipe out every tear from their eyes.”

There are a lot more...
The artwork is greatly appreciated by many - all of us, as well as millions of non-Witnesses.
So are our videos.
 

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
Piggy backing on the other thread, I'm curious. One JW here said that jesus calls them to evangelize...and (in my words) will do so despite the others disinterest etc. They also, I believe, don't agree with blood transfusions that in my view would save lives to those who need it.
How do JWs evangelise to the disinterested? Order folks to stand still?

How many lives have been saved and lost through blood transfusions? Please don't include plasma transfusions.

Yet, the door to door visiting has been stopped temporarily. Why is that?
It's the law on some countries. JWs have to obey the laws of their lands, Paul said so.

If evangelization and medical waivers of treatment etc are acknowledged as gods laws, why would JW postpone door to door visits?
Paul layed down that JWs must obey countries laws.
But JWs here we're still allowed to go cycling and to deliver mails, which is what they have been doing.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Translating, to my language. :)
If there was no eternal life, would I live my life as I am?
If there was no sure promise of everlasting life, it's likely the only life would be one, you guys live - hopeless, purposeless, just existing.
That's how I was before I knew the truth, so that's how I would be, if the truth I know, was not... Or, I would be dead and buried, eaten by maggots and nonexistent.
That doesn't look too pretty.

Wow. Yeah. I don't see life that way. I've had bad experiences and still go through depression and all of that off and on. Though, I do feel inside a vitality that can put all these hiccups into perspective. So, being comfortable with death and not existing would be ideal. Hopefully now rather than later. Eternal life never attracted me. Whichever works, though.

I guess I prefer the greater truth then, than the inferior one, most people have.
It's not a case of choosing death though. It's rather the opposite - It's a case of choosing life - the real life.
(1 Timothy 6:19) . . .safely treasuring up for themselves a fine foundation for the future, so that they may get a firm hold on the real life.

Why do you consider it greater and lesser? There's only one reality. What's the value of a greater truth if it needs to be contrasted to a lesser? Shouldn't truth be greater onto itself without needing an opposite? Take out greater and just say truth, in other words?

Here is a challenge for you. Can you demonstrate that you value life.

Living my values, productivity, meditation, things of that nature. Behaviors that let me know I'm alive, help myself, interact with loved ones, and contribute to community as a whole. Ideally, a lifestyle and relationships that bring fullness to my heart, being, and actions. I can just say thank you and let that action be in itself its own reward. Present state of being rather than a future renewed being.

Deep question. Thanks. What about yourself?

Oh?
Do you mean you can't understand how you can die for someone you love?
Didn't you earlier talk about people you love... Would you not give your life for any one of them?
Or do you mean you can't understand why you would need to?

When you die for someone you love, you usually don't choose to but it's an instinct-because you love the person. For example, I don't "want" to give up my life for my loved one "and" if I did (if I were alive to say it), I wouldn't regret it. I don't want her to loose her life and I don't want to loose mine. So, sacrifice isn't really my thing. Of course if I had a wife, I would die for her-it's just not an inherent value of mine. I think it's natural to protect people you love. A human animal instinct. I don't know. As a choice it doesn't feel right. As a necessity, I wouldn't regret it.

Have you ever heard someone say, "I owe you my life", or "I owe my life to you"?
Why do they say that?
Because of something most people don't have, nor think they should have... Gratitude.
I am grateful to the creator, for life. I owe him my life. Not only because God created life, but God provided the means by which I can have life, in abundance.

I haven't had that so strong to give my life to someone as a choice. Gratitude, I would see it, is how you live for god (we'll say) not that you'd die for him. I guess another way to put it is your life is already in his hands, why value dying for him if he gave you life to live?

God is the source of my life, and it is because of him that I am alive today.
Had I not found the truth, I believe I might not be alive today.



Oh. I see.
You mixed up your words, so I didn't understand you.
The way you worded it, was to say that JWs themselves were not rewarded for their evangelizing.
What you really meant to say, was that people JWs spoke to, were not rewarded.
Is that correct?

Yes. Some people aren't reward and some are. I was thinking you said the people JW speak to are all rewarded because they were told the message of christ. I was saying not all get that from JW. Evangelism insults many people so there's a give or take.

I think you have the idea that we are comparing success rates with blood transfusions, and bloodless medicine, and using that as a basis for our position.

However, I have to tell you Artist, it's beyond me where you got an idea like that.

Don't ask. Something from another thread tipped me to it.

Okay. So which Jesus do you not disagree with - the Muslim version, or other?

I actually don't know the Muslim version, to tell you honestly. I just went strictly what I read in the bible. I haven't read it in awhile. Gave away majority of them and kept the confirmation one. I wasn't catholic that long. So, I only know how they see god through the Eucharist not the bible. In other words, communion not literacy.

These are actually "pictures painted" in the scriptures, which our artists take from the pages and "bring to life" in living color.

Every illustration you see in our publication - except where it is beyond the first century, is taken from the scriptures.

I don't watch the videos. A lot of political issues JW and other christians are against I take very personal. I saw this video and never looked at any other ones thereafter.


I used to have some Watchtower Magazines years ago when a couple JW stopped by every now and again to talk. The only thing I agree with JW about theology wise is the trinity argument, actual dying rather than spirit, and god being the "breath of life." Everything else is touch and go.
 

nPeace

Veteran Member
Wow. Yeah. I don't see life that way. I've had bad experiences and still go through depression and all of that off and on. Though, I do feel inside a vitality that can put all these hiccups into perspective. So, being comfortable with death and not existing would be ideal. Hopefully now rather than later. Eternal life never attracted me. Whichever works, though.



Why do you consider it greater and lesser? There's only one reality. What's the value of a greater truth if it needs to be contrasted to a lesser? Shouldn't truth be greater onto itself without needing an opposite? Take out greater and just say truth, in other words?



Living my values, productivity, meditation, things of that nature. Behaviors that let me know I'm alive, help myself, interact with loved ones, and contribute to community as a whole. Ideally, a lifestyle and relationships that bring fullness to my heart, being, and actions. I can just say thank you and let that action be in itself its own reward. Present state of being rather than a future renewed being.

Deep question. Thanks. What about yourself?



When you die for someone you love, you usually don't choose to but it's an instinct-because you love the person. For example, I don't "want" to give up my life for my loved one "and" if I did (if I were alive to say it), I wouldn't regret it. I don't want her to loose her life and I don't want to loose mine. So, sacrifice isn't really my thing. Of course if I had a wife, I would die for her-it's just not an inherent value of mine. I think it's natural to protect people you love. A human animal instinct. I don't know. As a choice it doesn't feel right. As a necessity, I wouldn't regret it.



I haven't had that so strong to give my life to someone as a choice. Gratitude, I would see it, is how you live for god (we'll say) not that you'd die for him. I guess another way to put it is your life is already in his hands, why value dying for him if he gave you life to live?







Yes. Some people aren't reward and some are. I was thinking you said the people JW speak to are all rewarded because they were told the message of christ. I was saying not all get that from JW. Evangelism insults many people so there's a give or take.



Don't ask. Something from another thread tipped me to it.



I actually don't know the Muslim version, to tell you honestly. I just went strictly what I read in the bible. I haven't read it in awhile. Gave away majority of them and kept the confirmation one. I wasn't catholic that long. So, I only know how they see god through the Eucharist not the bible. In other words, communion not literacy.



I don't watch the videos. A lot of political issues JW and other christians are against I take very personal. I saw this video and never looked at any other ones thereafter.


I used to have some Watchtower Magazines years ago when a couple JW stopped by every now and again to talk. The only thing I agree with JW about theology wise is the trinity argument, actual dying rather than spirit, and god being the "breath of life." Everything else is touch and go.
Remember. It's not choosing death, or preferring death. It's choosing life.
I don't hope to die. Rather, my hope is to live on eternally, without dying.

If you are saying, there is your truth, and then there is my truth, why can't one be greater than the other? If they are not the same, they can be different.
Perhaps you are thinking about fruit, where an apple and orange are different, but they are both beneficial.
We are not talking about fruit. I prefer to eat them than talk about them. :D
However, there can be two fruit that are the same - It can be two apples, but yet one can be better than the other, because one may be fresh, and one rotting.

Today, the quality of life differ from person to person. Each have life, but one can be better.
The quality of life I live today, is better than the one I lived twenty-five years ago.
Yet the quality of life I am looking to, is way better than this one.
(Hebrews 11
10 . . .he was awaiting the city having real foundations, whose designer and builder is God.
13 . . .In faith all of these died, although they did not receive the fulfillment of the promises; but they saw them from a distance and welcomed them and publicly declared that they were strangers and temporary residents in the land.
24 By faith Moses, when grown up, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh’s daughter, 25 choosing to be mistreated with the people of God rather than to have the temporary enjoyment of sin, 26 because he considered the reproach of the Christ to be riches greater than the treasures of Egypt, for he looked intently toward the payment of the reward.

(1 Timothy 6:19) . . .safely treasuring up for themselves a fine foundation for the future, so that they may get a firm hold on the real life.

What do you mean by "Your life is in God's hands"?
 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
That would mean if you know you do not have the virus, you don't need a mask?

You never know that.

You get tested on monday, and catch the virus on the way out of the testing facility.
You get negative test results on tuesday.

On wednesday, not wearing a mask thinking you don't have the virus, you infect the entire market.

A lot of people wear masks for themselves because they don't know who has the virus.

The result is that they wear a mask, which is good.
Albeit for the wrong reasons.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
You get tested on monday, and catch the virus on the way out of the testing facility.
You get negative test results on tuesday.

Shrugs. I try to be an optimist. If I thought that for every asymptomatic virus that exists, I'd do what they say and stay at home.

The result is that they wear a mask, which is good.
Albeit for the wrong reasons

Right or wrong reasons, it still prevents the risk of catching the disease. How does wearing it for the "right" reasons better in the sceme of things?
 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
Shrugs. I try to be an optimist.

In these times, optimistically shrugging potentially kills people. You should reflect on that for a second.
Do you feel like it is responsible behavior in this day and age to "optimistically shrug"-away the very real threat that Covid19 poses to a very large subset of your fellow citizens and, possibly, family?


If I thought that for every asymptomatic virus that exists, I'd do what they say and stay at home.

We aren't talking about "every" virus. We are talking about covid19 in particular, which currently has the world in a stranglehold. And that death grip is tightening, precisely due to people with the attitude you display here.

Right or wrong reasons, it still prevents the risk of catching the disease

No. It lowers (NOT "prevents"!) the risk of transmitting the disease.
Washing and disinfecting your hands before touching your face regularly (especially after touching "public" things) while keeping distance and having others wear a mask, is what prevents YOU from catching it.

Wearing a mask yourself only really helps in preventing you of infecting someone else, in case you happen to be infected yourself without knowing it (yet).

How does wearing it for the "right" reasons better in the sceme of things?

Because the best weapon against this (and any other) pandemic, is accurate knowledge in the hands of every citizen, about how a virus spreads and how one can protect one selves as well as others.

Blindly following rules that you don't understand, is better then not following any rules at all.
But following them while also understanding them and being informed on the topic, will work far better.

Because it will lead to less mistakes and unintentional dangerous behavior. It will also help in recognizing situations where the rules are either inadequate or not applicable.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
What do you think optimism means? Ignoring problems?

Negativity makes me physically sick. Also, stress has huge influence on the immune system so, like people in hospice and other medical detail, there needs to be some level of detachment to keep one's sanity. That doesn't mean we don't care (and not knowledgably of what's going on), we just think of our mental health as well.

In these times, optimistically shrugging potentially kills people. You should reflect on that for a second.

Do you feel like it is responsible behavior in this day and age to "optimistically shrug"-away the very real threat that Covid19 poses to a very large subset of your fellow citizens and, possibly, family?

How so? It does not mean ignore the bad stuff. People have lived. People have died.

If you're talking about the RF conversation, I wouldn't call it responsible. Just a reaction to your comment. Shrug, in this case, being indifferent to what we're discussing. I don't have (and try not to have) negative comments about things on RF and hopefully in person that is opposite of who I am as a person.

As for the situation of COVID, yes it does. I have family members at risk. I live in a place where every person is at high risk (over 70ish). If I were like most people looking at t.v. and seeing numbers go up and taking it as is, I'd probably stay home, lock my doors, and become paranoid. Since "my personal" mental health cannot handle the stress, I change my mindset. Does not mean I don't care about other people. It means I don't have family members and people close to take care of that what's on t.v. hits me in a real real sensitive way. Probably the closest to home was the 9'11 incident. There are so many people saying this and that over this COVID thing it's best to do with the doctors say, take care of yourself, help people, and keep your chin up.

We aren't talking about "every" virus. We are talking about covid19 in particular, which currently has the world in a stranglehold. And that death grip is tightening, precisely due to people with the attitude you display here.

I am talking about every virus that's asymptomatic, especially those that are life threatening. That's an interesting way to put it.

No. It prevents the risk of transmitting the disease.

Washing and disinfecting your hands before touching your face regularly (especially after touching "public" things) while keeping distance and having others wear a mask, is what prevents YOU from catching it.

Wearing a mask yourself only really helps in preventing you of infecting someone else, in case you happen to be infected yourself without knowing it (yet).

Okay. Prevents the risk of transmitting the disease rather than catching. The point is the same.

I know this.

Blindly following rules that you don't understand, is better then not following any rules at all.
But following them while also understanding them and being informed on the topic, will work far better.

I thought you were talking about morals not whether one understands the situation or not. Right or wrong, if they wear the mask, they help reduce spread of the disease. If they don't understand how it works, then that's a different story.

Because it will lead to less mistakes and unintentional dangerous behavior. It will also help in recognizing situations where the rules are either inadequate or not applicable.

Right and wrong, though, are morals. You can say, for example, I only care about myself to wear a mask and it still does its job. Opinions mean nothing in cases like this. You're talking about something different.
 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
What do you think optimism means? Ignoring problems?

In this particular context, it means to act irresponsibly, with very little respect to your fellow man and society at large.

You can still be optimistic that you haven't gotten infected, while still taking the necessary and responsible precautions, just in case your optimism isn't justified.

Negativity makes me physically sick.

What's so "negative" about wearing a facemask to protect other people?
If you have a loved one suffering from leukemia in the hospital, severely weakened and with a destroyed immune system... do you also get "physically sick" by the "negativity" of you wearing a facemask while visiting that person, just in case you have some virus innocent to you but potentially deadly to the leukemia patient?

It's the exact same situation.
The only difference is that in case of the leukemia patient, you can be quite certain that you put that person in danger. In today's Covid19 world, you have no idea if that guy standing next to you in line at the supermarket has severe astma or something that proves to be extremely dangerous in combination with Covid19.

Also, stress has huge influence on the immune system so, like people in hospice and other medical detail, there needs to be some level of detachment to keep one's sanity. That doesn't mean we don't care (and not knowledgably of what's going on), we just think of our mental health as well.

How is your mental health affected by wearing a face mask in crowded places?


"How so"? What do you mean "how so"??
More people died of Covid in US then US soldiers have died in the korean and vietnam war combined.


I thought you were talking about morals not whether one understands the situation or not

To me, those are very much linked.
I think it is very immoral to not properly inform oneself about this disease, how it spreads, what the symptoms are, what the risks are and how one can protect oneself as well as others.

It is even more immoral to intentionally stay ignorant and "not care at all".


Right and wrong, though, are morals.

And very much linked to the actual facts on the topic.
Facts inform morals. It's kind of hard to make moral judgements, if you don't understand the consequences of your actions.

If a guy doesn't steal "because authority X told him not to", but doesn't know or understand why X told him so... is that guy then acting "morally".

I say no. Instead, that guy is simply being obedient. And ignorant. "morals" don't come into play in that case.

If anything, I'ld argue that it is in fact immoral to simply engage in blind obedience for the sake of being obedient.


You can say, for example, I only care about myself to wear a mask and it still does its job. Opinions mean nothing in cases like this. You're talking about something different.

Just because acting on bad or no intel can lead to a positive outcome, doesn't mean it's a good way to go about things.
 
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