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"Justice" System Incompetence

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Yep, now I have no doubts that those on death row are probably all guilty of some serious crime. But I have found that states too willing to do so will probably have put someone away unjustly. In my state there are those that I wish that they would put to death. The Green River Killer comes to mind. But he made a deal. He gave information as part of a plea bargain. Unfortunately that means that if anyone is killed in this state that they penalty will not be evenly administered. The worst of criminals get a life sentence where moderate murderers would face the ultimate penalty.

Keeping it on the books but almost never using it does seem to be the best solution, even though there are those that truly appear to deserve it.
I'd never assume that someone wrongly convicted is guilty of something else.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
I'd never assume that someone wrongly convicted is guilty of something else.
I know, but it is pretty hard to not come to that conclusion. The innocent person suddenly facing false murder charges may be a staple of Hollywood, but in reality it does not happen. Sadly I know too many people that have put themselves in prison. The state actually does its best to keep people out of jail. It is cheaper to keep them out and try to make them "mend their ways". That is why punishments escalate. Being arrested for car theft, the first time, gets one the lightest slap on the wrist. Besides the arrest their is usually no jail time. Right now my roommates son is doing three years and I am worried that it is not enough time for him. I like the kid, but he needs some time off the street. And prison is the safest place for him at times.
 

leibowde84

Veteran Member
Ohio wants to execute a criminal.
But they fail at something which should be so simple.
Ref....
Ohio execution called off after prison officials can't find good vein

They can't find a vein?
That stops everything?
They can't hang or shoot him?
Oh, what a silly, intellectually paralyzed, bloated bureaucracy
we have when they can kill innocent citizens willy nilly, but they
cannot execute an aged convict in their custody.

I'm no fan of the death penalty, but if they're going to do it,
then dad gummit....man up, & accomplish this easy task.
What do you mean by "we can kill innocent citizens willy nilly"?
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Ohio wants to execute a criminal.
But they fail at something which should be so simple.
Ref....
Ohio execution called off after prison officials can't find good vein

They can't find a vein?
That stops everything?
They can't hang or shoot him?
Oh, what a silly, intellectually paralyzed, bloated bureaucracy
we have when they can kill innocent citizens willy nilly, but they
cannot execute an aged convict in their custody.

I'm no fan of the death penalty, but if they're going to do it,
then dad gummit....man up, & accomplish this easy task.

And this reminds me of the Mitchell Rupe case in my state. Once convicted in prison Rupe purposefully overate because hanging was the only option here. He got to be so fat that he made a credible argument that if hung his head could be pulled off of his body and claimed that that would be "cruel and unusual punishment". That would be unusual, no doubt, but hardly "cruel" since death would have been instantaneous. The state added a choice of lethal injection because of this case.

Mitchell Rupe - Wikipedia
 

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
Ohio wants to execute a criminal.
But they fail at something which should be so simple.
Ref....
Ohio execution called off after prison officials can't find good vein

They can't find a vein?
That stops everything?
They can't hang or shoot him?
Oh, what a silly, intellectually paralyzed, bloated bureaucracy
we have when they can kill innocent citizens willy nilly, but they
cannot execute an aged convict in their custody.

I'm no fan of the death penalty, but if they're going to do it,
then dad gummit....man up, & accomplish this easy task.

What I've heard is it's taking Ohio quite a bit of medical resources to keep the fellow alive. He has numerous medical problems.

Got to keep him healthy long enough so we can execute him.

campbell-2.jpeg
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
I know, but it is pretty hard to not come to that conclusion. The innocent person suddenly facing false murder charges may be a staple of Hollywood, but in reality it does not happen. Sadly I know too many people that have put themselves in prison. The state actually does its best to keep people out of jail. It is cheaper to keep them out and try to make them "mend their ways". That is why punishments escalate. Being arrested for car theft, the first time, gets one the lightest slap on the wrist. Besides the arrest their is usually no jail time. Right now my roommates son is doing three years and I am worried that it is not enough time for him. I like the kid, but he needs some time off the street. And prison is the safest place for him at times.
And I know a guy who was almost framed by a crooked detective.
So I give less weight to odds, & more to "innocent til proven guilty".
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
And this reminds me of the Mitchell Rupe case in my state. Once convicted in prison Rupe purposefully overate because hanging was the only option here. He got to be so fat that he made a credible argument that if hung his head could be pulled off of his body and claimed that that would be "cruel and unusual punishment". That would be unusual, no doubt, but hardly "cruel" since death would have been instantaneous. The state added a choice of lethal injection because of this case.

Mitchell Rupe - Wikipedia
At least he could be humanely shot to death.
I like the idea of dropping them out of an airplane at a couple miles altitude.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
And I know a guy who was almost framed by a crooked detective.
So I give less weight to odds, & more to "innocent til proven guilty".


That can happen too. And when it comes to trials it is the only guideline to follow.

But I would of course like to hear both sides of the story.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
At least he could be humanely shot to death.
I like the idea of dropping them out of an airplane at a couple miles altitude.

Hanging is supposed to be quite humane when done correctly, at least from the perspective of the person being hanged. Death is supposed to be close to instantaneous and the person is knocked unconscious by the event even if he does survive for a second or two. The downside of the airplane drop is that it would be a terror filled event for the criminal. That could be called "torture" by some. The plus side is that there is a very small, but real, chance of survival. If the person survived would the debt to society have been paid?
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Hanging is supposed to be quite humane when done correctly, at least from the perspective of the person being hanged. Death is supposed to be close to instantaneous and the person is knocked unconscious by the event even if he does survive for a second or two. The downside of the airplane drop is that it would be a terror filled event for the criminal. That could be called "torture" by some. The plus side is that there is a very small, but real, chance of survival. If the person survived would the debt to society have been paid?
I'll take skydiving over hanging any day.
Surviving that is extremely rare, & depends
upon particular ground conditions.
 

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Ohio wants to execute a criminal.
But they fail at something which should be so simple.
Ref....
Ohio execution called off after prison officials can't find good vein

They can't find a vein?
That stops everything?
They can't hang or shoot him?
Oh, what a silly, intellectually paralyzed, bloated bureaucracy
we have when they can kill innocent citizens willy nilly, but they
cannot execute an aged convict in their custody.

I'm no fan of the death penalty, but if they're going to do it,
then dad gummit....man up, & accomplish this easy task.

Yeah, I know.

But if you think that's screwy, I remember several years ago this inmate on death row attempted suicide. They went to great efforts to rush him to the hospital and save his life, only to execute him that same week. "Cheating the hangman," they call it, but what kind of "hangman" has that big of an ego?
 

Father Heathen

Veteran Member
Ohio wants to execute a criminal.
But they fail at something which should be so simple.
Ref....
Ohio execution called off after prison officials can't find good vein

They can't find a vein?
That stops everything?
They can't hang or shoot him?
Oh, what a silly, intellectually paralyzed, bloated bureaucracy
we have when they can kill innocent citizens willy nilly, but they
cannot execute an aged convict in their custody.

I'm no fan of the death penalty, but if they're going to do it,
then dad gummit....man up, & accomplish this easy task.

I think the idea is to strictly follow the book to avoid any litigation. Ohio doesn't offer hanging or firing squad.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Yeah, I know.

But if you think that's screwy, I remember several years ago this inmate on death row attempted suicide. They went to great efforts to rush him to the hospital and save his life, only to execute him that same week. "Cheating the hangman," they call it, but what kind of "hangman" has that big of an ego?
Idiotic policy.
It's a perverse kind of killing with no redeeming quality.
The convict must die, but must do so on government's terms.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
I think the idea is to strictly follow the book to avoid any litigation. Ohio doesn't offer hanging or firing squad.
There are so many things going, eg, having trouble finding a suitable chemical to do the job.
Politics, domestic law, international law, public perception, etc. One big mess with no single
rational entity to impose sense upon it.
 

leibowde84

Veteran Member
Not "we"...."they" (the cops) can kill us willy nilly.
But, cops can't kill people "willy nilly". There are very strict rules that they have to adhere to. I think the real problem lies with judges, who tend to give preferencial treatment to police officers.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
But, cops can't kill people "willy nilly". There are very strict rules that they have to adhere to. I think the real problem lies with judges, who tend to give preferencial treatment to police officers.
They're supposed to adhere to these rules.'
And many even do. But there are those who
don't, & they aren't held accountable often enuf.
The "blue wall" protects the malefactors.

But this thread is about the whole system,
which includes the judges you mention.
 
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