Just Curious About Deism

[Bunyip]

Complain to Merriam-Webster. You're hung up on that erroneous point and it's bringing you down.

Why would I need to do that? Plenty of dictionaries specify personal and interventionist conceptiojs of god as theism. Should I play the same silly game and demand that you change them?

Tell you what, you complain to Oxford ok?

 

[ThePainefulTruth]

Why? That is where I got my definitions from. Most dictionary definitions - along with the wiki page on theism refer specifically to personal, interventionist gods.

You should have looked at that wiki page mate - it starts out by explaining that 'theism' generally refers to the traditional comcept of god found in Christianity and Islam - which is of course a personal interventionist god.

You should check, the Oxford dictionary (amoung many others) also - it defines theist gods as interventionist and personal.

As does the Farlex dictionary, the Encyclopedia Brittanica, glossaries of religious terms, philosophy texts, theological works and so on.
In fact that theism posits an interventionist god is one of the principle distinctions between theosm and deism.

You just don't want to give up your deism = atheism schtick.

 

[Bunyip]

You just don't want to give up your deism = atheism schtick.

Did you look at the definitions of 'theism' in the other dictionaries, wiki, glossaries of theological temrs etc? When you do you will find that I am correct.

 

[ThePainefulTruth]

Did you look at the definitions of 'theism' in the other dictionaries, wiki, glossaries of theological temrs etc? When you do you will find that I am correct.

The question is whether deism = atheism as you've been claiming. I checked other dictionaries, inc. dictionary.com and Wiktionary.org and they say the same thing: deism=a belief in God. Atheism is the belief that there is no God. Ergo deism does not equal atheism.

And just for the record, Wiktionary says that theism is a "Belief in the existence of at least one deity", which would include deism.

 

[Bunyip]

The question is whether deism = atheism as you've been claiming.

I never claimed that deism was equal to atheism. You are misrepresenting me.

I checked other dictionaries, inc. dictionary.com and Wiktionary.org and they say the same thing: deism=a belief in God. Atheism is the belief that there is no God. Ergo deism does not equal atheism.

And just for the record, Wiktionary says that theism is a "Belief in the existence of at least one deity", which would include deism.

I'm not sure I see the point of you pretending not to have found definitions of theism that refer to personal and interventionist gods - as such i'll leave it there.

FYI The early Deists were seen as atheists, In relation to the Abrahamic god deists are atheist. Deism and atheism are not exclusive categories, nor is theism and deism.

 

[ThePainefulTruth]

I never claimed that deism was equal to atheism. You are misrepresenting me.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _
I would see deism as a reaction to theism, it proposes a conceptuon of god specifically different to the theistic notion in that it is not a personal, interventionist god. I would categorise deism as atheist.

False hope is worthless. Deism is a belief in god, but not theist god, hence it is atheist. Atheist responds to THEISM, the worship of a personal interventionist god. The deist god is an entirely different concept.

Yes, but the convention of using 'theism' to refer to personal, interventionist gods was established long ago - and the early deists used the term 'deist' specifically to distinguish between the theistic concept of god and the deism is identified as deism to seperate it from theism.Personally I see deism as more accurately a subset of atheism.

[/QUOTE]

Saying deism is not a belief in personal interventionist gods, does NOT say it doesn't believe in God, I.E. Atheism.

Then how do you distinguish between deism and theism?

Exactly as you've said above in red, but that doesn't make deism, atheist.

I would think that it is the fact that theist gods are interventionist and deist gods are not - how would you characterise the distinction?

Exactly that way, but they're all still gods! Atheists do not believe in God(s).

Personally I see deism as more accurately a subset of atheism.

 

[Bunyip]

Saying that deism is atheist is not the same as equating them. Chickens are animals - but not all animals are chickens. Deism is a subset of atheism in my view, not it's equivalent.

 

[ThePainefulTruth]

Saying that deism is atheist is not the same as equating them.

 

[Bunyip]

Saying deism is not a belief in personal interventionist gods, does NOT say it doesn't believe in God, I.E. Atheism.

Actually yes it is, it is a different conception of god - and not the conception atheism relates to.

Exactly as you've said above in red, but that doesn't make deism, atheist.



Exactly that way, but they're all still gods! Atheists do not believe in God(s).

Personally I see deism as more accurately a subset of atheism.