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Featured Just Accidental?

Discussion in 'Evolution Vs. Creationism' started by Deeje, Sep 25, 2016.

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  1. gnostic

    gnostic The Lost One

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    Sorry, but that's a misuse of the parable.

    The father didn't force the prodigal son to return to his family.

    And Jesus did not turn away the sick from receiving healing.

    JW is forcing members - the no blood transfusion - upon the sicks, those who need medical treatment.

    I dont see the similarities between prodigal son parable and the JW prohibition.
     
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  2. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    How so? If you read the parable, you will see that the father gave the son his inheritance and let him go to squander it if he so desired. It was his to do with as he pleased. Just like God gives us our inheritance.....our life, to live as we please. In our father's house there is security and peace along with generous provisions. Sometimes we can be convinced that it isn't enough or that the rules are too rigid. We can waste precious years chasing after an illusion and never find the happiness we thought would result from our freedom of choice. In the case of the prodigal son, his friends disappeared when his wealth and his usefulness to them, ran out. Only then did he question his choices and realize his mistakes. It often happens that we don't value what we have until we lose it.

    It was the son's choice to return home when he realized that he had nothing left and no one cared. He was sitting envying the pigs their carob pods when he had nothing to eat. No one would give him anything. Only then did he understand how well off he had been in the home of his father. But remember, the father made no attempt to stop his son from leaving or to coerce him into returning home. He didn't visit him either. He left it up to him to make his own decisions for his own reasons. [​IMG]

    The son did return, but humbled himself and asked to become a hired worker like all the others, with no special treatment, just grateful to be back home. The parable speaks of the father seeing his son "afar off" and running to meet him. This is what Jehovah does when he sees a contrite and humble soul, wanting to return "home". He welcomed him back with open arms. Walking alongside him on the final leg of the journey home.

    Jesus' entire mission was to preach the message of the Kingdom to the "lost sheep of the house of Israel", which he did. He said that they were "skinned and tossed about like sheep without a shepherd". The miracles were a foregleam of what his disciples could expect under the rule of his kingship. Healing was only performed on unbelievers so that they would have reason to listen to his message. Once the Christian congregation was established, there was no longer a need for miracles, which the apostle Paul called "the traits of a babe". In order to face the hard times ahead, they had to grow up.

    Seriously mate...that is an incredibly ignorant statement. Blood does not save lives, as we have proven countless times. Modern medicine does not rely on blood anymore because they now know it is not the safe, life-saving procedure it was once thought to be.

    "Why do patients choose bloodless medicine and surgery?
    Patients have many reasons for wanting to avoid blood transfusions. For some, religious beliefs are the primary reason. For others, concern about the safety of the blood supply or the potential health consequences of blood transfusions are the main factors."

    What are the benefits of a bloodless approach?
    Patients who do not receive blood transfusions have been shown to recover faster, have shorter hospital stays, and experience fewer infections. In addition, they avoid the risks of allergic reactions, contamination, or receiving the wrong blood type. Research has also shown that patients who undergo bloodless surgery have fewer heart attacks and strokes after surgery than those who receive transfusions."

    What are the risks of blood transfusion?
    "While the U.S. blood supply is safer than ever, there is still a very small risk of transmission of hepatitis B and C, malaria, syphilis, parasites, HIV, and other rare diseases. Studies have shown that patients who receive blood transfusions are at increased risk for hospital-acquired infections compared to those who do not. Finally, the body treats a blood transfusion as a type of temporary transplantation, characterized by the suppression of the body’s immune system."

    Why do patients choose Johns Hopkins for bloodless healthcare?
    The Center for Bloodless Medicine and Surgery at Johns Hopkins gives patients access to world-renowned healthcare at a premier hospital. The bloodless program blends seamlessly with the comprehensive specialties the hospital offers, so that patients who wish to avoid blood transfusions no longer need to compromise their medical and surgical care. Our specialists on the bloodless team are highly experienced doctors and researchers who understand and respect the decision to avoid blood products.

    FAQs | The Center for Bloodless Medicine and Surgery at Johns Hopkins

    You don't see a lot of things....I wonder why? [​IMG] Could it be something to do with the blinkers you're wearing perhaps? You know, if you just put your prejudice down for 5 minutes, you might actually learn something.

    When someone is disfellowshipped from our brotherhood, it is for a very good reason. It is not done with malice but in love, just like parents discipline their children because they love them. Many see the error of their ways, just like the prodigal son and make an effort to return to our family.....
    We welcome them back....just like God does. [​IMG]
     
  3. The Holy Bottom Burp

    The Holy Bottom Burp Active Member

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    Sure, the Watchtower has predicted dates for the end of the world several times in their history, but guess what? We are still here! False prophets! By their fruit...

    You are certain that you are right though, never a doubt in the back of your mind? I find that hard to believe, but I'll leave that one for you to work out for yourself.


    Death of a love one causes sadness and grief naturally, but to say it robs us of our joy is false. We take the warm memories of that person with us as we continue life's journey, and we learn to smile again. I don't dread death, I "die" every day when I sleep, death is just not waking up. I wont know anything about it when it comes will I?
    So is fear of death something that troubles you? An afterlife may be comforting thought, but if it is not true, so what? Believe in a false sugar coated reality rather than face facts? I know what I'd rather do.
    Well the Sadducees didn't believe in an afterlife, one of the top of my head, so there! Different religions allow for atheism - the "afterlife" can be metaphorical not a literal place like you believe. As for the track record of humanity, actually it does inspire me, we are the most successful species on the planet in terms of our dominance. It is easy to forget that our 21st century comfortable lives are only possible because of the science and technology that has made it so. Our ancestors lived shorter and much harder lives, a simple infected cut could kill you because there were no antibiotics, plagues wiped out thousands because we had no means of understanding them or combating them other than a superstitious belief that we must be doing something wrong, and the deity is punishing us. That is where sacrifice, even human sacrifice came from; to appease the god(s) for "natural disasters".
    Famine was another constant threat, but safe mass production of food means we no longer worry about putting bread on the table do we?
    If we left it to the holy men, proclaiming their unfounded nonsense as though they have special knowledge I imagine we'd still be starving to death and dying of simple ailments.


    I'll let you debate that one with a Christian, but "total distortion"? Jesus told the dying thief in Luke "today you will be with me in paradise", what "conditions" was the thief meeting? Heaven is mentioned many times in the NT, but it is only the lucky 144, 000 JWs getting in according to you right? Hell is mentioned many times in the bible also; 20 Top Bible Verses About Hell - Scripture Quotes
    There is still debate in Christian circles whether hell means "eternal conscious torment"; many are siding with annihilation now. I don't have a dog in that fight, I'm an atheist!


    I would say that the deity in the bible sets an impossible standard for people to meet, even to the point where to look at a woman lustfully is equivalent to adultery correct? There would be no marriage, no families, no humanity without men looking at women lustfully Deeje (and vice versa I hasten to add!). Jesus also said you must give up everything, including family to follow him. How many are prepared to take that one literally? Your good works? Filthy rags to god! Isiah 64:6

    That is the supposed reason we need a saviour, because we always fail to achieve and keep god's standards. Jesus was the sacrifice for our sins, he paid the price so you don't have to be perfect; I say again that is the gospel I hear sister Deeje! [​IMG]

    Now I hope I answered your question answer mine; are you sure you will be enjoying eternity on a paradise Earth? You've said and done bad things right? How do you know Jesus won't tally them up against you on judgement day, and say "I never knew you, begone goat!"? You know the correct stuff about Jesus, unlike the deluded in Christendom? Well, that just puts even more pressure on you to be perfect Deeje; good luck with that!


    Jesus was a Jewish teacher who only commanded a small following in his lifetime, the marketing came later. We won't agree on the Watchtower Deeje, if being a JW works for you, and you do not campaign to restrict other people's freedoms, then fine, I have no quarrel with you. Don't ask me to admire or respect your religious beliefs though, that just won't be happening!
     
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  4. SkepticThinker

    SkepticThinker Veteran Member

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    Our personal wants, desires and wishes don't constitute reality. Reality exists regardless of what we want to believe.
     
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  5. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    If you could see those things from the inside, instead of how it appears on the outside, you would not be so quick to condemn. There was never a time when we predicted "a date" for the end of the world. Jesus said "no one knows the day or the hour"....but he also told us to "keep on the watch" which is what we have done. The symbol of the Watchtower is significant for us. In ancient times the watchman manned the tower to alert the inhabitants of the city of something approaching in the distance. He did not know what it was, so the alert prepared the residents for what might be either friend or foe. If it proved to be nothing, life continued as before. It is not wrong to hope.....and hoping is all we did. Any who went beyond that did so of their own volition. We don't base our faith on a year....we are prepared to wait as long as it takes and by the look of how world events are shaping up...it will not be too much longer. We will just have to wait and see, as we have always done.

    I have no doubts at all. I have researched all things thoroughly......but that is not the only thing I base my faith on.....my personal relationship with God is something I can only tell you about.
    For those who have never experienced God's hand in their life, there are no words.....[​IMG]

    If its such a natural thing...why does death feel so wrong? Why have we never evolved an acceptance of death like we see in the animal world? Why do we want to believe that this is not all there is to our existence? Why do we collectively expect something more and better in a life to come, to make the tragedy of this life bearable?

    A future life where all the trials and troubles of this life do not exist is the basis for many religions. God designed us for that life...not this one. I used to worry about death a great deal in my youth. After the death of my father, my church upbringing led me to worry about where he might have gone? Was he in heaven or was he suffering in that other place? This tormented me for some time......until my study of the Bible with Jehovah's Witnesses. Learning that my father was "asleep", unaware of anything going on in the land of the living, was a great relief. So many more questions were answered as my investigation progressed, studying my old KJV. The pieces of the jig-saw all came together until there was no more doubt. When Jesus said "the truth shall set you free" I now know what he meant.

    The Sadducees did not believe in the resurrection, whereas the Pharisees had adopted the Hellenic belief in an immortal soul, so there were conflicting beliefs. By the time of Jesus' arrival, the Jewish religion had departed from its original concepts, and sectarianism had split the faith by adopting beliefs from outside the original one, resorting to man-made traditions instead of God's word....just as it has in Christendom.

    Different religions have so many ideas about a lot of things, so pick one that suits you...eh?
    Shopping in the celestial supermarket is what most people seem to do these days. Too bad if the beliefs don't suit the Creator.....as long as it suits us. [​IMG] If you don't want to acknowledge him, you can even make him go away.....or he can allow you to think that way for now.

    I believe that I have picked a faith that ticks all the boxes for me. My faith is not blind and I have my eyes wide open.
    We are all free to choose whatever appeals to our own hearts....aren't we?

    I don't know where to start on this bit.....[​IMG]

    "we are the most successful species on the planet in terms of our dominance".....do you see the irony in that statement?
    Our "dominance" has been responsible for more bloodshed on this earth that anything else. Man's inhumanity to man is the result of that dominance. When has it ever resulted in true peace and security?

    "our 21st century comfortable lives are only possible because of the science and technology that has made it so."......our comfortable lifestyle is killing us an inch at a time. We are losing our moral capacity, our language skills, our parenting skills and our capacity to care for our fellow man. What has happened to neighborhoods? Where I live, no one talks much with their neighbors. Everyone is so consumed with their own selfish lives that social media now makes up the bulk of people's "friendships". Pathetic, isn't it? [​IMG]

    "a simple infected cut could kill you because there were no antibiotics, plagues wiped out thousands because we had no means of understanding them or combating them other than a superstitious belief that we must be doing something wrong, and the deity is punishing us"

    Today we are seeing the results of the over-prescription of antibiotics. We are facing the emergence of "superbugs" that nothing will treat....epidemics of antibiotic resistant bacteria are expected and the best place to pick up infections is now in hospitals.....so how clever are we really? [​IMG]

     
  6. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    Are you serious? The food we put on our tables, is devoid of most nutrients and barely keeps people alive, let alone nourished and healthy. Shelf life is the prime concern with the food industry, so processed foods have to be devoid of all living content so that it will last longer on the shelves.....otherwise artificial preservatives keep the bugs at bay. Humans and animals are designed to eat living food. Medications, alcohol and junk food destroy good gut bacteria and we all wonder why we succumb to disease? [​IMG]

    Famine is not caused by the weather....it is caused by man refusing to share his abundance with those in need.
    Today, we are a global village, so what happens on one side of the world that causes want, could easily be offset by an abundance in another part. But, we won't share....why? It has no economic advantage and it might cost us something. [​IMG] We as a race are to blame for all the tragedy. We could help, but we won't.

    If people listened to the God of the Bible, they would be way better off than anyone else on this planet. Israel's hygiene laws included washing of hands before eating, burying human waste, quarantining sick individuals and burning contaminated articles. The medical profession did not cotton onto those simple measures for thousands of years. Godly wisdom, was it not? [​IMG]

    The thief was promised paradise, not heaven. And since Jesus did not go to heaven for 40 days after his resurrection, there is no way the thief could have been anywhere with Jesus that day. Jesus said he would be 'in the heart of the earth for three days and nights', just as Jonah was in the belly of the fish.
    That statement in Luke doesn't mean what you think it does. Jesus was promising the thief a resurrection in the new earth to come. That is the time for "a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous". (John 5:28-29)

    According to the Bible, not all are going to heaven because only the chosen ones get an invitation and God tells us how many will make up his heavenly government. (Revelation 14:1-4) Since God does the choosing, who can sneak in uninvited or pretend to be more than what they are? Since the choosing began in the first century, and since the modern day 'Witnesses of Jehovah' were raised up only in the last 100 years or so....labels have nothing to do with any of it. It isn't what you call yourself...its how you conduct yourself. (Matthew 7:21-23)

    None of those verses is referring to eternal conscious torment in some spiritual realm reserved for the wicked. [​IMG] God has no need to keep the wicked alive. He will simply leave them in their graves...so yes, annihilation will be their fate.....they will never see life again....that is what the Bible teaches.

    There is no impossible standard. Just taking that example from the Bible you mentioned.....the scripture says....
    “You heard that it was said: ‘You must not commit adultery.’ 28 But I say to you that everyone who keeps on looking at a woman so as to have a passion for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart."

    It is the fact that the man kept looking so that his heart became involved and thoughts of adultery were permitted to remain and grow despite the fact that he already had a mate to whom he was supposed to be faithful. This is about the recognizing the steps that lead to the act, not just condemning the act itself. Lusting after your own wife is not condemned anywhere in the Bible as far as I know.

    Not everyone in the first century was in a position to "give up everything". Those who could, did and were blessed for their efforts. Those who were not in that position found other ways to contribute to the well being of their brothers. Its the same today. Since care of one's family is a primary concern for Christians, we do not neglect our God-given responsibilities. But when unbelieving family members try to impose their will on us and our activities, we will choose to serve God's will and not theirs. We have dedicated our lives to God, not them. (Luke 17:10)

    It is true that Jesus died so that we don't have to be perfect, but it isn't a licence to sin. One of the fruits of God's spirit is "self-control" so there is no excuse to sin, there is only a remedy if we make a genuine mistake. But forgiveness is not granted unless the repentance is genuine. God can read hearts.

    That is the promise from a God who cannot lie. I have no reason to doubt that promise. It is exactly what was purposed at the beginning and what will be returned to us at the end. No human was created to go to heaven....that was never in the plan.

    There is no pressure. Why would there be any pressure when the things God hates hold no value or attraction for me? I hate what he hates....its that simple. Sins only accumulate when there is no repentance. When we are genuinely sorry over a wrong committed, we have assurance that when God forgives....he forgets.

    As you wish.....that has always been your choice though....hasn't it? [​IMG]
     
  7. The Holy Bottom Burp

    The Holy Bottom Burp Active Member

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    I still have a book about JWs I purchased when I was a Christian, it gives a detailed account of all the world endings prophesied by the Watchtower with extracts from JW literature. I was teasing really, I know the Watchtower have stopped making such forecasts, 1975 was the last one right?

    It doesn't feel "wrong" to me though, one of the defining moments in growing up is that things die; people, friends, parents. Religious people cry at funerals don't they? Why? Should they not be joyous if they really believe their religious dogma?
    Well thank you for that, you have "bared your soul" there, when you could have just told me to buzz off. I agree that hell is a twisted horrible idea, but I don't agree that the idea is unbiblical. All down to interpretation, just a pity the deity didn't make it more obvious to dullards like me



    So Yahweh never killed people in the bible? He never approved of tribes of Israel killing other people? Violence has always been a part of human history, whether "divinely inspired" or not.
    It is what you make it gal. I'm a secular humanist, I'm all for community.
    Yes, we are pretty damn clever! Even given the over-prescription of antibiotics we are looking at ways around it, alternatives are being researched as we speak. Personally I avoid taking any pills unless absolutely necessary, but should I contract something serious I'll be off to see a physician, not my nearest JW!;) I'll pop all the pills he or she advises!
     
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  8. The Holy Bottom Burp

    The Holy Bottom Burp Active Member

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    Rubbish, I work in the food industry so you are on my turf here. If you choose to eat junk food, high in fat, high in salt, then you are going to run into health problems. There is plenty of affordable healthy food out there, and even the "high fat, high salt" stuff is okay in moderation. Nothing wrong with processed food, just balance it out with fruit and veg I say.
    In the 21st century I'd agree, but for our ancestors it wasn't the case. Too much rain or not enough rain meant the crops failed and people starved to death. Nomadic tribes were almost certainly born out of a need to go wherever food was available, not because they fancied a change of scenery.


    So Jesus was a liar? Interesting! If you believe in the trinity you have no problem in believing the thief was with god that day, but you really need to take that up with Christians. There is a healthy debate going on in the "Was Jesus God" thread.


    Well that is convenient isn't it? As long as you don't keep looking it isn't adultery? If only Jesus had made it more clear! As for lusting after your own wife, I think you know I meant there would be no wives if men didn't look lustfully at women!
    Yeah right, when has anyone been in a position to give up everything? I'm not talking giving up chocolates here, pretty sure that is not what the bible was talking about either!


    Did I say anything to the contrary? I think you'll find Christians will say that the forgiveness of sins makes it imperative to live a "righteous" life.


    So you are assured of salvation? You could never lose it? Just asking, not sure what the Watchtower teaches on "assured" salvation.
     
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  9. FunctionalAtheist

    FunctionalAtheist Hammer of Reason

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    Me.
    Assortative mating. Look it up.
     
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  10. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    Death was never supposed to happen, so we are not programmed for it. It is all we have ever known, but it still feels wrong to lose someone you love, especially if they were young and had so much more living to do. We grieve because those people are supposed to be in our lives forever. The only thing that mitigates the loss is the hope of seeing them again. I believe that this will be a restoration to life on this earth.

    You keep missing the prerogative of the Creator, who created life and has the right to end it for his own reasons.

    The only time Israel shed blood was in defense of their God-given land and with divine sanction. Just as an executioner has sanction from their government to execute a law breaker. It doesn't make the government or the executioner a murderer.

    If humans had never unleashed a knowledge of evil, then violence would never have invaded human thinking. Once it was made known and sin entered human consciousness, they have been perpetrating violent acts towards one another ever since. I guess that was one of the things that drew me to JW's.....they will not take up weapons to kill or harm anyone for any reason. (Matthew 5:43-44) There are no divinely sanctioned wars in the Christian era. Church sanctioned? Yes.....but that is a whole other issue. [​IMG]

    JW's go to doctors too you know. I personally prefer alternative (or complimentary) medicine myself, especially after becoming aware of the agenda behind today's practice of orthodox medicine and its push for pharmacology as a solution to every problem. To each his own. This view has nothing to do with being a Witness. It is my personal preference.

    How many people actually know what "moderation" means? [​IMG]
    Do you know how fresh those fruits and vegetables are? As soon as vegetables and fruit are harvested, they begin to lose vitamin content (if they had any to begin with). Some of the stuff you buy as "fresh" produce in supermarkets can be years old, kept in cold storage. There is no such thing as 'fresh food' unless you grow it yourself and have access to natural fertilizers and unpolluted water. Food that is commercially grown is contaminated with artificial chemical fertilizers and bug sprays that we end up ingesting. Even some of the genetically modified seeds are contaminated with pesticides.
    Processed foods are dead foods. If "you are what you eat".....heaven help us all. [​IMG]

    No Jesus was not a liar. If you read that verse in Greek, you will not see any punctuation because there was none in the Greek language.....there were no capital letters either. All were inserted by translators.

    Luke 23:43:
    "καὶ And εἶπεν he said αὐτῷ to him ᾿Αμήν Amen σοι to you λέγω,I am saying σήμερον today μετ’with ἐμοῦ me ἔσῃ you will be ἐν in τῷ the παραδείσῳ paradise."

    In the ESV it is rendered this way....
    "And he said to him, “Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in paradise.

    You will be hard pressed to find a translation that does not put a comma after the word "you". But if you put the comma after the word "today" the verse takes on a whole different meaning.

    "Truly, I say to you today, you will be with me in paradise."

    "G. M. Lamsa, in the publication Gospel Light—Comments on the Teachings of Jesus From Aramaic and Unchanged Eastern Customs, pp. 303-304, says about the use of “today” at Lu 23:43: “The emphasis in this text is on the word ‘today’ and should read, ‘Truly I say to you today, you will be with me in Paradise.’ The promise was made on that day and it was to be fulfilled later. This is a characteristic of Oriental speech implying that the promise was made on a certain day and would surely be kept.” Therefore, the Greek phrase at Lu 23:43 may reflect a Semitic way of expressing emphasis. The Hebrew Scriptures provide numerous examples of the idiomatic usage of “today” in solemn expressions, such as promises and commands. (Deut 4:26; 6:6; 7:11; 8:1, 19; 30:15; Zech 9:12) The evidence presented above suggests that Jesus used the word “today” to call attention, not to the time of the criminal’s being in Paradise, but to the time at which the promise was being made."

    Since Jesus did not go to heaven for 40 days, and an expert on the Aramaic language confirms that it was indeed a Jewish idiom to make such a promise, I believe that the second rendering is correct. This was a promise made to the man that day. Since I have no belief in an immortal soul or the trinity, I believe Jesus was promising the thief a resurrection back to life in the new world to come....just like every other "righteous or unrighteous" person who sleeps in death. (2 Peter 3:13; John 5:28-29)

    Been there, done that. [​IMG]

     
  11. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    There is a reason why God has a policy that sex is to be enjoyed only with one's own marriage mate. There is no "try before you buy" in God's arrangement for a very good reason. It assures the couple there is more to their relationship than sex. If they can wait for marriage, then lust is subject to self-control. If one has self-control in this one important area of life, then a couple can be assured that it will be demonstrated in other equally important areas.
    I respect that arrangement.

    In visiting his friends Mary, Martha and Lazarus, there is no indication that Jesus asked them to give up give up everything and follow him. The position taken by the first Christians was emphasized by the apostle Paul....

    2 Cor 8:12-15:
    "For if the readiness is there first, it is especially acceptable according to what a person has, not according to what a person does not have. 13 For I do not want to make it easy for others, but difficult for you; 14 but that by means of an equalizing, your surplus at the present time might offset their need, so that their surplus might also offset your deficiency, that there may be an equalizing. 15 Just as it is written: “The person with much did not have too much, and the person with little did not have too little.”

    This is balanced IMV. [​IMG]

    I have a promise from God through his son that if I am doing the will of God first in my life, to the best of my ability, then my salvation is assured. It has nothing to do with wearing a label because we are judged individually ....not just collectively.

    I could easily lose my salvation if I succumbed to the temptations placed before us by God's adversary. There is no spiritual insurance policy that overrides my personal conduct. We have to prove ourselves faithful to the death if necessary. [​IMG] The first Christian martyrs did, so must we.

     
    #4031 Deeje, Aug 2, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2017
  12. Magus

    Magus Active Member

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    Not enough time to evolve on a 6000 year old earth.
     
  13. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    Who said the earth is only 6,000 years old? [​IMG]
     
  14. The Holy Bottom Burp

    The Holy Bottom Burp Active Member

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    I wouldn't say it feels "wrong" when somebody you love dies, it is painful for sure, but death is just a part of the circle of life. As for the only thing that mitigates is "the hope of seeing them again", not so, I've already said you take the memories of that person, the good times you shared on life's journey. I am resigned to my mortality, it is just a fact. I still enjoy life, it engages me, and it would still engage you if you came across something that positively falsified your religious beliefs today. Life goes on, regardless of what you believe.

    No, I'm missing nothing, I understand you think the "Creator" made us, so has utter and complete control over everything; it can destroy us if it becomes annoyed by what we do or say. According to the bible it has done just that on many occasions in the past. Your version of the deity sounds like an old school dictator, Stalin on speed, though I suppose you got that from the odious character portrayed in the OT. That capricious old bully is what is waiting for us on the other side of the grave? Damn sorry outlook for humanity then; don't get too comfortable in your "new world" btw, the deity may well decide he is unhappy with humanity again and wipe them out. He does that, and that is his right of course in your world? Annihilation is beginning to sound appealing!
    No, there was the genocide of the Canaanites wasn't there? God, in his mercy, commanded that men, women, children, and even the animals be slaughtered. What a happy scene, but there again, it is god's prerogative to take life isn't it? Even if he commands other human beings to do the slaughtering on his behalf.
    Yes it's our fault, it is always our fault. Let's not forget the evil Christendom, from which your organisation emerged either right? Change the record Deeje!


    Alternative medicine? I hope you don't mean quackery like homeopathy? Dear me Deeje, you go from bad to worse!


    Oh, so you are allow people ignorance when it comes to "moderation" in diet, but heaven help them if they get the god question wrong eh?
    I'll happily dismiss your diatribe about "modern food" as hogwash, if it didn't contain the nutrients we need to live and be healthy we would be dying off at a rate of knots. I'm 50, I'm as fit as a flea, I cycle, I knock myself out at the gym, I eat healthily. I buy free range meat, not because I think it is necessarily healthier, but because I believe we should treat animals humanely. Other than that, more than happy to eat supermarket fruit and veg, and even processed food!:eek:


    Sure, and I read a different interpretation if I go to a Christian apologist. For someone who is not supposed to be the author of confusion, it seems that there is a lot of confusion about what "god's word" means! Seriously Deeje, I don't care, that is an argument for believers. I don't feel motivated to learn ancient Greek or Aramaic to find out!
     
  15. The Holy Bottom Burp

    The Holy Bottom Burp Active Member

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    I wasn't expecting you to approve of free love you know, but what you wrote is missing the point I was making. The biblical standards are impossible to follow, even your natural biological urges count against you.

    The best of your ability? Oh no, you must live your life according to god's rules or he'll crush you like a bug madam. "To the best of my ability" sounds extremely vague and woolly. So you could lose your salvation you reckon? You are really not selling this thing to me Deeje, a despotic dictator who dangles the carrot of salvation, only to snatch it away if I succumb to temptation? What exactly is the "good news" in your religious message?
     
  16. Kelly of the Phoenix

    Kelly of the Phoenix Well-Known Member

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    Have you been seeing the news of what parents have been doing to their children?

    Do you have a verse banning multistory buildings? What does God think of skyscrapers?

    How was a multistory building going to harm God in any legitimate way?

    But it HAS been altered, deleted, etc, so no, God doesn't do anything to "preserve" anything.

    The part where you own someone is pretty much the same.

    Funny how those same people cried out to God every time another culture did it to THEM. I mean, if it's all good, why beg God to make it stop for YOU?

    It's meant as an achievement but I consider it a failing.

    It's like buying a video game that is so glitchy and so badly programmed it's basically unwinnable and then crowing endlessly about how only the awesome can beat it.

    "into a way they liked better...."

    In all honesty, since you have repeatedly admitted you are not allowed nor do you have the capacity to read anything scholarly, what "study" have you done, exactly?

    God's spirit showed me the problems of the bible. He didn't send me to your denomination, though. Why would that be?

    Not if you value facts.

    Then why bother with us at all? Just stock His little terrarium with pet rocks, like John the Baptist said.

    Do you believe you have the right to kill your children if they disobey? If not, why not? After all, it's biblical ...

    I expect my God to not be a snowflake too fragile to handle an adult conversation.

    Isn't the reason you left "Christendom" for "JW" being you were impressed by the latter?

    Some people are easily impressed. My dogs think the ability to open doors is magical.

    Now if only it will last the entire century. :(

    So we can see where the kid inherited his sense of irresponsibility, then.

    Would you come to this conclusion if you lived in Gaza or some other war-torn hellhole?

    Maybe had his father not neglected to raise the little jerk ...

    So, God doesn't save us at all. We have to save ourselves because God is too busy to go looking for us, making the Good Shepherd parable an outright lie. Got it.

    So Jesus' message doesn't stand up on its own merits and he has to resort to bait and switch to get butts in the pews. Got it.

    Again, let me drain you of your blood and replace it with normal saline. Curious how long you'll last?

    Many of which are no longer instantly fatal, thanks to the science you poo-poo so much.

    I was suicidal after the death of my grandfather, but also happy he could finally stop suffering from his ill health. He died happy and that's fine with me.

    Yeah, I don't see the issue either. The great thing about it is whether an afterlife exists or not, you're not going to care at the moment.

    Attachment to petty things in life.

    "We" have. "You" have not.

    Do you live in a place where this attitude would be understandable? Syria? Gaza? Anywhere but where you actually live? Isn't it a bit of a slap in the face of God to be "impressed" by Him all the time and then constantly whine about how awful one's life is?

    There were only TWO people on the planet and things got screwed up. Explain THAT.

    I don't know if he's a liar or has short term memory loss, as he's also the kind of person to say calling someone a "fool" will land them in hell after calling some religious leaders foolish ...

    The Legend of Tithonus and Eos

    Eternity can suck.
     
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  17. blü 2

    blü 2 Well-Known Member
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    I enjoyed your handsome collection of duck photos. Thanks.

    As to how they come to be like that, various evolutionary forces might be at play.

    They're not obviously camouflage, though that's a selecting difference. The ones who are most obvious are most likely to be taken by predators, and the ones hardest to see are mostly like to survive and pass their genes on.

    No, I'd guess that these have more to do with attracting breeding mates. Just as human males respond to evolved sexual clues, of which the female breast one obvious example, so in the bird world, the male bird with the right (in this case) plumage gets the best shot at mating, and thus at passing his spectacular display on with his genes. This competition occurs in every generation, and so is always likely to keep developing. Possibly the most striking form of this among birds are the birds of paradise of Papua New Guinea, whose great variety and gorgeous display have blown ornithologists away forever.
     
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  18. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    No, your natural biological urges are natural.....you just have to learn to control them....a bit like stopping yourself from strangling a complete jerk who appears to be doing everything he can to ask for it. [​IMG]

    Since we are judged individually, God does not compare us with others. "To the best of our ability" means exactly what it says. My best may not be someone else's best and vice versa. God knows what my best is.

    If you think that then what can I say? Nothing will open a closed mind. [​IMG] It's not about succumbing to temptation...its about having the strength of character to reject it and walk away. Self-control is a product of God's spirit, so we have help when its needed....but only if we ask. Life is a test...we either pass it or we don't.

    The good news is that no one who rejects the Creator will get to spoil life for those who want his rulership more than anything.
    I want the life God is offering. You clearly do not, so hopefully we will each get what we ask for. [​IMG]
     
  19. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    It does until it doesn't. We both share this belief, just from two different perspectives. [​IMG]

    Wow, you really do have issues, don't you? [​IMG] There is no 'capricious bully waiting on the other side of the grave'....that is Christendom's version of God. The Jews never entertained such a belief. The highest penalty under God's law for the worst of crimes was death. There is no immortal soul that flits off to some spiritual realm at death, to await the big judgment and sentence of eternal flames. You will not find that concept in the Bible even though some "Christians" have misinterpreted scripture to say so.

    The dead "sleep".....and those whom God considers worthy, will be resurrected back to this mortal life to live the way they were created to....in paradise, with no aging, sickness or death. (Revelation 21:2-4)....that includes both "righteous and unrighteous". (John 5:28-29) The incorrigibly wicked will never wake up. Everlasting death is the opposite of everlasting life. There never was a "heaven or hell" scenario in the Bible.....so the outlook for obedient mankind is actually wonderful...in spite of your gloom and doom scenario.

    Since Jesus' death pays for their sins and guarantees a second chance by means of a resurrection under the rulership of God's kingdom, there has been a thousand years set aside to bring all living humans back to the perfect state that Adam once enjoyed.....without the devil interfering. The "good news of God's Kingdom" is that it is the means by which mankind can be reconciled back into a close relationship with their Creator....God's will can then "be done, on earth as it is in heaven". It's coming, ready or not.

    If I remember correctly, the Canaanites were the offspring of Noah's grandson Canaan, who was cursed for some kind of lewd conduct in connection with his grandfather. His descendants displayed his disgusting personality traits and as one archaeologist commented, 'if the kinds of artifacts unearthed in the land of Canaan are an indication of its depravity, its a wonder God did not evict them sooner'. [​IMG] That land was promised to Abraham's descendants, not Canaan's.

    Oh please. [​IMG] ....how many times must I say it? We are not an offshoot of any denomination in Christendom. We share none of their beliefs because none of them are biblical.

    For the record.....we did change the record. [​IMG]

    I know that the orthodox medical system has no interest in good health, even though it pretends to. It is interested in maintaining the ill health of the population so as to milk them for all they are worth. You are free to fall for the propaganda, but many of us have seen through their disgusting agenda. Cures for cancer have been around for decades, yet the medical system continues to use outdated methods that do not work and cause people to suffer horribly until they take their last breath....but all the while making them pay for the misery and the false hope. You talk about quackery? I know who the real quacks are.

    Don't look now, but they are. Cancer, heart disease, diabetes, stroke and neurological disorders are taking hundreds of thousands of lives every year. Much of it caused or exacerbated by our poor diet. Where are the cures? All they have are "treatments" designed to try and fix symptoms, but they never seem to get to the cause of the problems. Side effects make the treatments even worse, but guess what?.....
    They have more drugs to treat those side effects! [​IMG]

    You brought it up. [​IMG]

    The biblical standards are not hard to follow at all. Honest, moral people have no problem with any of them. When you love God more than you love yourself, you don't invite those problems on yourself. I don't believe that disobeying the Creator ever results in lasting happiness.....but that is just my experience.
     
  20. The Holy Bottom Burp

    The Holy Bottom Burp Active Member

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    Ah, Deeje, I thought our exchange was at an end, you really do like the last word huh?:D
    It is your casual acceptance of the way the deity supposedly has complete ownership of our lives; if parents said to a child "we made you, therefore we have every right to kill you if you displease us" you would call them psychotic monsters. A deity says it and you worship it.
    Never mind hell, and I'm certainly not convinced by your "unbiblical" claim about it btw, annihilation is killing people still yes? Am I supposed to rejoice that there wont be any eternal torture on the menu? Oh, god is just brimming with love!
    Then why not cut to the chase rather than go through millennia with satan in charge? If that's how its going to pan out I'll wait until the 1000 years reign begins , when I can see more evidence for the existence of god. I cant lose!:D

    I have to go, but I'll come back to demolish the rest of your points later!;)
     
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