Just a quick question from someone who knows very little about Xianity.

[jonny]

only God can read hearts so he would know if we are genuine sorry or not , i supose it boils down to our heart condtion as the bible tells us
Many people who have been told that they are "saved" seem to have little intention of either following or obeying Jesus

provided, indeed, that you heard him and were taught by means of him, just as truth is in Jesus, that you should put away the old personality which conforms to your former course of conduct

but that you should be made new in the force actuating your mind, and should put on the new personality which was created according to God’s will in true righteousness and loyalty

One of Jesus’ disciples warned that ungodly men were "turning the undeserved kindness of our God into an excuse for loose conduct and proving false to our only Owner and Lord, Jesus Christ." (Jude 4) How might we, in fact, turn God’s mercy "into an excuse for loose conduct"? We could do so by assuming that Christ’s sacrifice covers deliberate sins that we intend to keep on committing rather than sins of human imperfection that we are trying to put behind us

I agree with everything you said except the last sentance. I believe that Christ's mercy is great enough to even forgive someone who knowingly breaks the commandments if they really have true remorse. Christ not only knows our hearts when we are sinning, but he also knows our hearts when we are seeking forgiveness. I don't believe there is any point of no return until we are standing before God awaiting judgement.

 

[michel]

Not to me. Predestination and foreknowledge are completely different things (though I don't want to have to go through all this yet again). Predestination was completely alien to Christianity up until the time of Bl. Augustine and his predestinationist ideas are still rejected by all eastern Christians. The really strong ideas of predestination date from the Reformation with people like Calvin and are not a part of the beliefs of anybody in the early Church. I will never get why people seem to have such difficulty understanding the difference between a God who is outside of time knowing all that will ever occur in the universe and Him forcing it to be so.

The betrayal was Judas' free will decision and so he is justly condemned by the Church for it. Of course, as our soteriology is primarily Incarnational rather than being fixated on the Crucifixion, it's quite possible for me to accept the possibility of our salvation even if Christ weren't crucified, which makes Judas' betrayal (in my eyes) all the worse.

James

Now you have really confused me James; you say:

I will never get why people seem to have such difficulty understanding the difference between a God who is outside of time knowing all that will ever occur in the universe and Him forcing it to be so.

If God is outside time (which I happen to believe), as you say, knowing all that will ever occur, then he knew what part Judas would play, even though, to Judas, the choice was his. God didn't have to 'force' Judas into being a pawn; he already knew he would be........surely ?

 

[James the Persian]

If God is outside time (which I happen to believe), as you say, knowing all that will ever occur, then he knew what part Judas would play, even though, to Judas, the choice was his. God didn't have to 'force' Judas into being a pawn; he already knew he would be........surely ?

Yes, that's exactly what I was saying. God knows all so He knew that Judas would play the part he did, but He most certainly did not force him. It was foreknowledge, not predestination. What exactly is it that I wrote that you found confusing? You seem to have understood my post perfectly well.

James