Just 43% of Americans Identify as Protestant

[Kenny]

Big difference between then and now is that people are much more educated now then they were. The poll and other posters did point out that education is the chief culprit to people losing their faith. That's a genie that cannot be put back into the bottle. So I doubt any great revivals are in the works because it's very difficult if not impossible to change an educated person's mind. Only a powerful miracle that is unmistakably from the Christian god will change minds.

I don't think so. Every time man thinks they are so intelligent, much like the Greek philosophers, God seems to make those who think that, look foolish.

Will God also use miracles? Probably so IMV. I believe He will...

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Maybe after the coming WWIII humans will hit bottom again and turn back to faith. Right now mankind feels it doesn't need God.

WWII is a big reason why Europeans dropped Christianity, so don't count on it.

 

[George-ananda]

I agree. 2000 years is a good run. But from a Christian's perspective one has to wonder, "Did God send his son to die for us just so that Christianity could have a good run for 2000 years and then go obsolete?" That's what appears to be happening. Jesus' sacrifice is going obsolete. Whoulda thunk?

What I think is progressive Christians need to obsolete the idea that Jesus’ death was ever an atonement death. What they keep is the message of brotherly love and forgiveness.

 

[Batya]

Yes, but all these deserters will lose their salvation and go to hell. Doesn't God care about that?

Yes, of course he cares. He is not willing (desirous) that any should perish and has no delight in the death of a sinner, but he ultimately gives each person the free will to make their own choice. That's why it's important to choose wisely.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I agree. 2000 years is a good run. But from a Christian's perspective one has to wonder, "Did God send his son to die for us just so that Christianity could have a good run for 2000 years and then go obsolete?" That's what appears to be happening. Jesus' sacrifice is going obsolete. Whoulda thunk?

You know, America and the West is not the world. Christianity is growing in some areas of the world, especially charismatic and Evangelical Christianity. (I think those are the worst forms of Christianity, but that's me.)

 

[Subduction Zone]

In my view, there is some things we can learn from history (even Jewish history).

Man has free will. But when things go downhill (as they are now) - people start prayer and then God DOES intervene... because man has asked Him after repenting.

The Great Awakening with Jonathon Edwards 1734-1743
The Second Great awakening with Charles Finney, James McGready
The Businessmen’s Revival of 1857-1858 with Jeremiah Lanphier,
The Civil War Revival, 1861-1865
The Urban Revivals, 1875-1885. with Dwight L. Moody
The Revivals of 1904-1906. the Welsh Revival and Billy Sunday
The Azusa Street Revival, 1906.with William J. Seymour
And another in the 1940's and 50's

All of these caused hundreds of thousands and sometimes million to become believers changing the course of faith.

So, since we can't predict the future, we can say that God isn't finished.

Though the time is part I would be willing to bet that many only became more ardent believers. They were believers all along. Revivals tend to get people worked up. Nothing new or spectacular there.

Now if there was a significant reversal in people that actually became atheists you might have something.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Four of the most specious words in combination are “if current trends continue”.

Well it rather obviously will not continue at the same rates. But numbers are apt to go down.

 

[Glaurung]

To be fair, Christians are told to expect this. The Christian scriptures make pretty clear though various statements throughout that faith is set to decline as we approach the end. But it is questionable whether we're approaching that end as while Christianity is declining in Europe, North America, Australia and New Zealand, it is growing in Africa and Asia.

It is also a mistake to assume that the trends of our current moment are somehow inevitable into the future. We don't know what the future holds. There's no 'law of history' precluding large scale religious revival.

 

[Colt]

WWII is a big reason why Europeans dropped Christianity, so don't count on it.

The unhealthy marriage between state and church in Europe as well as inflexible doctrine did lead to the decline but spirituality outside of institutional religion is growing. There are other movements quietly awaiting the coming spiritual renaissance.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

According to a recent (2019) Pew poll. Pew is one of the most respected polls in America so there's no reason to doubt their finds. Other findings:

* 65% of American adults identified as Christians, DOWN 12% from 2009

* atheist, agnostic or “nones" now stands at 26%, UP from 17% in 2009.

In U.S., Decline of Christianity Continues at Rapid Pace

Extrapolating outward at 12% per decade that means that in 2070 only 5% of Americans will identify as Protestant.

Truthfully, I was shocked by these statistics. And I have mentioned them to a number of Christians on this board. They seem to be glib on the matter, not really caring from all appearances that their faith is dying on the vine. One member went so far as to question the reliability of any poll that showed Christianity in a negative light. They asked question like, "What specific questions were asked, how did the pollsters ask the question, were they broad or specific in their questions, what kinds of question did they ask, how broad was the sampling, and on and on....a veritable feast of red herring to distract from the very simple finding that Christianity is on the way out in America, following Europe's even more stark downward trend.

So I have to ask a few direct questions:

Why is God allowing his faith to bleed to death? Why doesn't God intervene in some miraculous way to stop the hemorrhaging of Christians away from Jesus?

One mighty visible miracle from God could stop people from leaving Christianity. All God has to do is speak up audibly like he did on Mt. Sinai. If he did it then he can do it again.

Why Doesn't God Intervene?????

I have to admit that I am also perplexed by the statistics you cite -- I would not have supposed that things were progressing so swiftly. Actually, I've not studied the source, so I'm still not sure that I accept the stats yet.

However, the answer to your "few direct questions" seems to be surprisingly simple: "Because God doesn't exist, and all such beliefs are nothing more than the content of human imagination(s)."

 

[Sand Dancer]

Why is God allowing his faith to bleed to death? Why doesn't God intervene in some miraculous way to stop the hemorrhaging of Christians away from Jesus?

One mighty visible miracle from God could stop people from leaving Christianity. All God has to do is speak up audibly like he did on Mt. Sinai. If he did it then he can do it again.

Why Doesn't God Intervene?????

Why doesn't he punish unChrist-like Christians? They are spreading a hateful message.

 

[Sand Dancer]

This is no surprise to me at all. Yeshua said it was a narrow path, so that implies that there would not necessarily be a huge following. Also, in Thessalonians 2, it says that there will be a great falling away before Yeshua's return, so... there you go.
If it's fading away, it's the people's choice, He's given us free will, and to "intervene" would take away from that free will, I feel. God's not concerned, there will always be a remnant.

Sadly, it's the good people that are falling away, leaving the unsavory characters with religion.

 

[SeekingAllTruth]

I don't think so. Every time man thinks they are so intelligent, much like the Greek philosophers, God seems to make those who think that, look foolish.

Will God also use miracles? Probably so IMV. I believe He will...

I've heard a few Christian scholars/theologians say that after Jesus ascended God closed the age of him doing miracles and making himself known to man. That has held for 2000 years. We've never seen anything that could be categorized as a bonafide "miracle". I doubt we're going to see anything now. Shame is that Jesus's sacrifice was meant to be effectual for all time as all men were drawn to him, to use his words. Now it seems belief in Jesus seems to drive people further away. How God allows so many hundreds of millions of people to march straight into the fires of hell with nary a peep is something I cannot fathom, seeing as how Jesus claims to love them so much. Would anyone have believed a hundred years ago that such a mass exodus away from Jesus could have been possible? And yet here we are.

 

[Sand Dancer]

You know, America and the West is not the world. Christianity is growing in some areas of the world, especially charismatic and Evangelical Christianity. (I think those are the worst forms of Christianity, but that's me.)

I agree. Fundamentalism in undeveloped nations is a recipe for disaster.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Why Doesn't God Intervene?????

Why do we not listen, when God does?

Regards Tony

 

[SeekingAllTruth]

What I think is progressive Christians need to obsolete the idea that Jesus’ death was ever an atonement death. What they keep is the message of brotherly love and forgiveness.

I wish someone would do a study on how the early church converted Jesus' death for likely sedition into an atonement death. I've already mentioned that what I read was Jesus' death wasn't considered atonement until the Jews lost their temple in 70 CE. When they could no longer sacrifice animals for atonement they seized on Jesus as a permanent one-time sacrifice for all men for expediency's sake. this way, by promoting this idea the Jews (who were the first Christians) didn't have to worry about having to make a yearly animal sacrifice on an altar that no longer existed. The temple destruction made possible Jesus' salvation. Without the destruction of the temple the idea of Jesus' death as salvation might never have occurred.

 

[SeekingAllTruth]

Yes, of course he cares. He is not willing (desirous) that any should perish and has no delight in the death of a sinner, but he ultimately gives each person the free will to make their own choice. That's why it's important to choose wisely.

Well, if he cares so much then why in the hell doesn't he do something to stop it!!!!!!!!

 

[SeekingAllTruth]

To be fair, Christians are told to expect this. The Christian scriptures make pretty clear though various statements throughout that faith is set to decline as we approach the end. But it is questionable whether we're approaching that end as while Christianity is declining in Europe, North America, Australia and New Zealand, it is growing in Africa and Asia.

It is also a mistake to assume that the trends of our current moment are somehow inevitable into the future. We don't know what the future holds. There's no 'law of history' precluding large scale religious revival.

it is interesting to note that Christianity is dying where education is the best and growing where education is the worst. This should tell us something about Christianity's survival being solely dependent on keeping people dumb.

 

[SeekingAllTruth]

The unhealthy marriage between state and church in Europe as well as inflexible doctrine did lead to the decline but spirituality outside of institutional religion is growing. There are other movements quietly awaiting the coming spiritual renaissance.

Spirituality is an enemy of Christianity. Most of the "nones"--those who reject Jesus--identify themselves as spiritual.

 

[SeekingAllTruth]

I have to admit that I am also perplexed by the statistics you cite -- I would not have supposed that things were progressing so swiftly. Actually, I've not studied the source, so I'm still not sure that I accept the stats yet.

However, the answer to your "few direct questions" seems to be surprisingly simple: "Because God doesn't exist, and all such beliefs are nothing more than the content of human imagination(s)."

Pew is one of the most respected poll takers in the world. You can trust their statistics. As for God not existing, it's obvious the idea of "no God" didn't stop people from believing in Jesus for 2000 years.