Judgment

[InChrist]

I was reading and thinking about a few verses this morning. The first was ...
For the time has come for judgment to begin at the house of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God?
(1 Peter 4:17)
And then...
Pride goes before destruction, And a haughty spirit before a fall. (Proverbs 16:18)
For behold, the day is coming,
Burning like an oven,
And all the proud, yes, all who do wickedly will be stubble.
And the day which is coming shall burn them up,”
Says the Lord of hosts,
“That will leave them neither root nor branch. ( Malachi 4:1)

Certainly, there is plenty to be judged by God in the church. Judgment, it seems, has already started in the church and will continue. There is plenty of pride rampant within the church and in the world.
Any thoughts?

 

[Psalm23]

I was reading and thinking about a few verses this morning. The first was ...
For the time has come for judgment to begin at the house of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God?
(1 Peter 4:17)
And then...
Pride goes before destruction, And a haughty spirit before a fall. (Proverbs 16:18)
For behold, the day is coming,
Burning like an oven,
And all the proud, yes, all who do wickedly will be stubble.
And the day which is coming shall burn them up,”
Says the Lord of hosts,
“That will leave them neither root nor branch. ( Malachi 4:1)

Certainly, there is plenty to be judged by God in the church. Judgment, it seems, has already started in the church and will continue. There is plenty of pride rampant within the church and in the world.
Any thoughts?

It seems to me pride is something we all deal with as people.

 

[InChrist]

It seems to me pride is something we all deal with as people.

I agree, it’s an everyday challenge.

 

[Psalm23]

I agree, it’s an everyday challenge.

God’s grace is still sufficient.

 

[InChrist]

God’s grace is still sufficient.

Yes it definitely is, such a gift!

 

[metis]

I was reading and thinking about a few verses this morning. The first was ...
For the time has come for judgment to begin at the house of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God?
(1 Peter 4:17)
And then...
Pride goes before destruction, And a haughty spirit before a fall. (Proverbs 16:18)
For behold, the day is coming,
Burning like an oven,
And all the proud, yes, all who do wickedly will be stubble.
And the day which is coming shall burn them up,”
Says the Lord of hosts,
“That will leave them neither root nor branch. ( Malachi 4:1)

Certainly, there is plenty to be judged by God in the church. Judgment, it seems, has already started in the church and will continue. There is plenty of pride rampant within the church and in the world.
Any thoughts?

Actually when one views God's condemnations in the Gospel, it's not aimed at the Church but at people whether they be inside or outside the Church. "Church" is mentioned 109 times in the Gospel, so its existence clearly was and is mandated, which wouldn't be the case if somehow the "Church" was "wicked".

 

[InChrist]

Actually when one views God's condemnations in the Gospel, it's not aimed at the Church but at people whether they be inside or outside the Church. "Church" is mentioned 109 times in the Gospel, so its existence clearly was and is mandated, which wouldn't be the case if somehow the "Church" was "wicked".

I did not mean to insinuate that the church was wicked or not mandated. The scriptures clearly reveal the church is the Bride of Christ and loved by Christ, as well that it is Christ who builds His church. I’m just saying that where there is sin in the church, pride or otherwise , it will be judged. In the case of believers the Bible calls such judgement chastisement and correction based in love.

 

[InChrist]

i agree wholeheartedly with your statement here

my one added thought is this:

is it possible that the word “judgment” in the Bible is referring to the judgment that we RECEIVE from the Lord, when we get to know Him?

and is it possible that the judgment given to us, is ONLY to be used to judge ourselves, to discover the evils and falsities hidden within?

Yes, I think those ideas you’ ve expressed are possible. I believe the scriptures indicate God lovingly corrects believers. Of course the visible church may be made up of true believers submitted to Christ and those who are deceivers or self-exalting individuals (mid)using the name of Jesus Christ for their own gain.

 

[Jeremiah Ames]

Yes, I think those ideas you’ be expressed are possible. I believe the scriptures indicate God lovingly corrects believers. Of course the visible church may be made up of true believers submitted to Christ and those who are deceivers or self-exalting individuals (mid)using the name of Jesus Christ for their own gain.

exactly

well put

 

[metis]

I did not mean to insinuate that the church was wicked or not mandated. The scriptures clearly reveal the church is the Bride of Christ and loved by Christ, as well that it is Christ who builds His church. I’m just saying that where there is sin in the church, pride or otherwise , it will be judged. In the case of believers the Bible calls such judgement chastisement and correction based in love.

Repeating it doesn't make it true as there's no reference to the Church being judged but much reference to people being judged. Jesus said he would guide his Church until the end of time and warned about those who would eventually go against the Church and try to undermine it.

 

[InChrist]

Repeating it doesn't make it true as there's no reference to the Church being judged but much reference to people being judged. Jesus said he would guide his Church until the end of time and warned about those who would eventually go against the Church and try to undermine it.

Here, in the verse below, Peter is speaking of a time when God will judge the church. How does God’s judgment go against or undermine the church? It belongs to God , doesn’t it ?

For the time has come for judgmentto begin at the house of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God? 1 Peter 4:17

 

[metis]

Here, in the verse below, Peter is speaking of a time when God will judge the church. How does God’s judgment go against or undermine the church? It belongs to God , doesn’t it ?

For the time has come for judgmentto begin at the house of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God? 1 Peter 4:17

Again, if you read it in context, it refers to individuals who do not obey the Gospel, thus not the entire Church that Jesus said he would guide until the end of times.

Here's that verse you linked: "For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?" IOW, it's clearly not a blanket condemnation of the entire Church with the "them" word being in there, which would go against what Jesus actually said if your interpretation was correct.

IOW, ya gotta put such verses in context by rubbing them across other teachings within the Gospel.