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Judging Other People

Mehr Licht

Ave Sophia
I'm interested in seeing how people in the various world religions handle the topic of judging other people. I just came across this beautiful quote from a 7th Century East Syrian Christian ( or "Nestorian") monk and it got me thinking along these lines:
"The soul which bears abundant clusters of fruit is the one which has driven out of itself anything that says: 'This man is good, and that man is bad; this man is just, and that man is a sinner.'... The barren soul is the one which judges its neighbor as being good or evil."...'When the grace visits us, the light of love of our fellow-men, which is shed on the mirror of our heart, is such that we do not see in the world any sinners or evil men; but when we are under the influence of the demons, we are so much in the darkness of wrath that we do not see a single good or upright man in the world...When the mind has completely shut it's eyes not to notice the weaknesses of our neighbor, the heart is rejuvenated in God."

- Simon of Taibutheh
If your religion doesn't have a specific teaching in this area I would be happy to hear your own personal opinion as well. What do you make the idea expressed by Simon ?

:yoda:

On a side note I've been finding many of the East Syrian spiritual writers like Isaac of Syria, Dadisho Kattraya, Abraham Bar Dashandad, John of Dalyatha, Abbdisho Hazzaya.... really interesting. It's a shame more people don't know about them. It's kind of like the church lost to history for most westerners. These writers have such love and compassion they are really some amazing people.
 
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Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
I like Simon's take on judging other people. It's a mystical take. But I don't think it's mainstream Christian. Not at all.
 

Mehr Licht

Ave Sophia
I like Simon's take on judging other people. It's a mystical take. But I don't think it's mainstream Christian. Not at all.
Most folks, including self professed Christians, don't seem to follow this view. It's kind of a hard one to hold too because it goes against so much that has been engrained in us by the world.
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
Most folks, including self professed Christians, don't seem to follow this view. It's kind of a hard one to hold too because it goes against so much that has been engrained in us by the world.

Precisely. Yet, Simon's may be the truest view.
 

waitasec

Veteran Member
if one judges others in order to make them feel better about them self then
it's apparent to the one who is doing the judging that they don't think that much about their self in the 1st place...and the snowball effect takes place.
 

Mehr Licht

Ave Sophia
if one judges others in order to make them feel better about them self then
it's apparent to the one who is doing the judging that they don't think that much about their self in the 1st place...and the snowball effect takes place.

I agree. It all keeps adding to the collective evil and suffering in the world. It's also bound to come back on you so in a way it's like cutting off your nose to spite your face. I feel such peace when I am able to love an enemy or someone who has insulted me rather then judging them as a bad person. When I don't react that way I just get high blood pressure and stew in my anger all day. I cause myself suffering by judging other people.
 

Gjallarhorn

N'yog-Sothep
Judging people as good or evil is just silly, since good and evil are subjective. It amounts to saying "I don't like you". I don't think it's possible to live (long) without judging people in other ways.
 

Levite

Higher and Higher
We have a different take on things. Some examples might be taken from Pirkei Avot, the tractate of Mishnah which is the wisdom literature of the Rabbis:

יהושע בן פרחיה אומר עשה לך רב וקנה לך חבר והוי דן את כל האדם לכף זכות:
Yehoshua ben Prachyah said, Adopt a teacher for yourself, get yourself a friend, and judge people innocent/worthwhile [unless proven otherwise]. (Avot 1:6)

יהודה בן טבאי אומר אל תעש עצמך כעורכי הדיינין וכשיהיו בעלי דינים עומדים לפניך יהיו בעיניך כרשעים וכשנפטרים מלפניך יהיו בעיניך כזכאין כשקבלו עליהם את הדין:
Yehudah ben Tabai said, Don’t conduct yourself like a shyster. When two people come before you [to judge a case for them], consider them both equally guilty. But when they leave, consider them both equally not guilty-- provided they have accepted judgement. (Avot 1:8)

רבן שמעון בן גמליאל אומר על שלשה דברים העולם עומד על הדין ועל האמת ועל השלום שנאמר אמת ומשפט שלום שפטו בשעריכם
Rabban Shimon ben Gamliel said, The World rests on three things: on justice, on truth, and on peace, as it says [in Zechariyah, chapter 8] “Truth and peaceful laws shall you adjudicate in your dwelling places!” (Avot 1:18)

הוא היה אומר אל תהי בז לכל אדם ואל תהי מפליג לכל דבר שאין לך אדם שאין לו שעה ואין לך דבר שאין לו מקום:
Ben Azai used to say, Do not despise people, and do not quarrel with everything, since every person has their hour, and there is no matter which has no use. (Avot 4:3)

Although we're taught many times, in many places, to treat people well and to not hate others, we are never taught to refrain from judging-- only to refrain from judging unfairly. But to refrain from judging anyone altogether is to refuse to engage in bettering the world through justice. Justice begins with the recognition that the actions of oneself or another were wrong, and require amending.
 

9Westy9

Sceptic, Libertarian, Egalitarian
Premium Member
I think everyone judges people. It's just a few who make their judgements more public than they should. I, personally, try not to treat someone based on my judgements of them
 

Mehr Licht

Ave Sophia
I can see how it would be important to be able to predict peoples future behavior based on their past behavior in certain instances. You wouldn't want a mass murderer to be chief of police for example. Also to be able to judge the quality of a persons work if you are business owner or whatnot. I think the key is to never hold another person as "less" than you or as an incarnation of evil. You might have to make practical decisions but you shouldn't go beyond that to a hatred or despising of another person because of their actions imo.

The last will be made first. Like St Paul who called himself the greatest of sinners or the publican who would not even raise his eyes to heaven but said Lord have mercy on me a sinner. If you hold yourself above or superior to others you turn away the mercy of the Lord.
 

Caladan

Agnostic Pantheist
I'm interested in seeing how people in the various world religions handle the topic of judging other people.
Although I am not a Christian. I recall that one of the historical Christian mystics said something very profound and very simple at the same time.
she said, 'Remember this, and you will never judge another: Judas was once a disciple, and the person crucified next to Christ was once a thief'

I also find another thing fascinating. in the entire Bible, the only person to whom Jesus promises a place in heaven is a convicted criminal who was sentenced to death and was crucified next to him.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
I think everyone judges people. It's just a few who make their judgements more public than they should. I, personally, try not to treat someone based on my judgements of them
Hah! Wait til you become an employer, lender & creditor.
Judge all, lest ye eat bitter fruit from the tree of financial woe.
 
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Mehr Licht

Ave Sophia
Although I am not a Christian. I recall that one of the historical Christian mystics said something very profound and very simple at the same time.
she said, 'Remember this, and you will never judge another: Judas was once a disciple, and the person crucified next to Christ was once a thief'
I've heard that somewhere once before too. Great saying ! I was just reading the Syriac "Book of Steps", a 4th century Christian work, and it has something similar:
For how do you know, you who are angry with a wrongdoer, if he is not another Paul, or one of the publicans, a Zacchaeus or a Matthew, or a Rahab the harlot, or someone like the samaritan women who committed adultery with many men, about whom our Lord testified that she had had five husbands besides the one she had at the time he met her? All these people repented and were saved. Should we then exalt ourselves above sinners, without knowing ourselves whether we will end up as Solomon or as Isacariot, or like the others who were good to begin with but sinned in the end?

Scripture says, 'Do not rejoice at the destruction of your enemy' [Pr 24:17], lest God bring his destruction on you and has no mercy on you as you had no mercy on your brother. 'Whoever rejoices at misfortune will be his own ruin.' Is it right that our Lord should die for sinners, but that we should hate them? Even if we are merciful with them, we are still very much falling short of the kind of love the Lord had. But if we hate them, we shall see him in eternity."
 

Susan_jane

New Member
whoever says that they would not go to judge anyone really its a lie.. how we go to judge a person ? by viewing rite. The main judging point is our eyes.
 
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