Judas was just doing what jesus asked?

[St0ne]

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2006/04/0406_060406_judas.html?source=rss

What do you think this would\does mean for christians?

 

[Adstar]

It has no effect on me It seems they are "discovering" a new gospel every week these days :biglaugh: I am waiting for when they come out with the gospel of satan :biglaugh:
Now that will be hilarious read too

All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[ashai]

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2006/04/0406_060406_judas.html?source=rss

What do you think this would\does mean for christians?

''

Ushta
Am no CFhristian but I can tell you it wont influence one in ten thousand. First it is a 3rd Century copy of a Greek original which nobody knows how old it is , so the Christian leaders and apologists will have a field day with it

Second I must comment on the idea that a set of facts or a single discovery can shake some one's faith. I see this as naive, because most people believe on the basis of a relationship and not totally on doctrine alone.:tsk:
So unless you get accross to them the fact that the Creator has relationship with any one who seeks to harmonize their life to Her/His Right Order regardlesss of
religion,:bow:
you won't be able to shake hardly any one's faith on the basis of isolated facts.

Ushta te
Ashai

 

[St0ne]

Obviously it's not going to shake anyones faith but maybe it will have an effect on how they portray Judas.

 

[Sunstone]

I suppose some people will be impressed with how much diversity there was in early Christianity.

 

[James the Persian]

Given that this Gospel was referenced by St Irenaeus in Against Heresies, I can't see that it will have any effect at all on the vast majority of Christians. It was condemned as heretical so long ago (pretty much when it was first written) that it's going to make no difference at all to the faith of mainline Christians of any sort. It might be interesting to see exactly what the group that produced it believed, but that's about all.

James

 

[Mike182]

im sure theres another thread going round about this

it does not alter my faith at all, ive always thought judas's role was bigger than we knew, but if we didn't have judas, we wouldn't have a jesus on a cross, would we!

 

[James the Persian]

im sure theres another thread going round about this

it does not alter my faith at all, ive always thought judas's role was bigger than we knew, but if we didn't have judas, we wouldn't have a jesus on a cross, would we!

My faith would survive just fine without Judas having betrayed Christ. No death by crucifixion really wouldn't alter Orthodox soteriology one jot. Judas is most certainly the villain and his condemnation for the betrayal is completely justified. Not for nothing was this 'gospel' condemned almost as soon as it appeared.

James

 

[Nehustan]

im sure theres another thread going round about this

it does not alter my faith at all, ive always thought judas's role was bigger than we knew, but if we didn't have judas, we wouldn't have a jesus on a cross, would we!

Or another school suggests that without Judas, there would be nobody hanging (up)on the cross/tree (apart from the two 'thieves' and hundreds of others in the Roman Empire!!!) while Jesus did his Jonah thing.

Bimillah Ar Rahman Ar Raheem

That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah.;- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:

Surah An Nisa, 4:157
​

 

[michel]

im sure theres another thread going round about this

it does not alter my faith at all, ive always thought judas's role was bigger than we knew, but if we didn't have judas, we wouldn't have a jesus on a cross, would we!

Actually, that's the way I see it......but having read James' replies, I was surprised to hear that this discovery is nothing new.

 

[Nehustan]

It will be very interesting to see what this gospel actually says in light of the 'Judas Theory' made famous by the 'Trial of the Templar' with the specific accusation made that they (The Templar) denied the crucifixion and spat on the cross.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Given that this Gospel was referenced by St Irenaeus in Against Heresies, I can't see that it will have any effect at all on the vast majority of Christians.

Correct. It is, indeed, old news, and all it confirms is that the Gnostic fringes of nascent Christianity had a unique take on history and reality. This too is old news.

 

[michel]

Correct. It is, indeed, old news, and all it confirms is that the Gnostic fringes of nascent Christianity had a unique take on history and reality. This too is old news.

To those who know better; I guess that is a positive from being a member of this forum........thank goodness for you guys who do know better.

 

[Nehustan]

Found this attributed to St. Irenaeus (i, 31, 1) after a quick google....

Others again declare that Cain derived his being from the Power above, and acknowledge that Esau, Korah, the Sodomites, and all such persons, are related to themselves. On this account, they add, they have been assailed by the Creator, yet no one of them has suffered injury. For Sophia was in the habit of carrying off that which belonged to her from them to herself. They declare that Judas the traitor was thoroughly acquainted with these things, and that he alone, knowing the truth as no others did, accomplished the mystery of the betrayal; by him all things, both earthly and heavenly, were thus thrown into confusion. They produce a fictitious history of this kind, which they style the Gospel of Judas.

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/gospeljudas.html


with wiki adding...

"Step away from the others and I shall tell you the mysteries of the kingdom," and later "Look, you have been told everything. Lift up your eyes and look at the cloud and the light within it and the stars surrounding it. The star that leads the way is your star."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_Judas

which must obviously be considered in light of the semiotic construct of the name Jeheshuah...

​

Ruach Elohim
= 300 =

...with thus Jeheshuah as 'the star' and the axiom for Judas, 'risen not as a sun, but as a star behind the cross'...

If it was indeed Judas at Golgotha...then it would add creedence to Judas and Thomas being one in the same, with him rising as a star he would indeed be the 'spiritual' brother (Thomas) and thus a 'star' of the prophet Jeheshuah, as mooted by Islamic thought, and one of the causes of The trial of the Templar.
​

 

[Scott1]

then it would add creedence to Judas and Thomas being one in the same, with him rising as a star he would indeed be the 'spiritual' brother (Thomas) and thus a 'star' of the prophet Jeheshuah, as mooted by Islamic thought, and one of the causes of The trial of the Templar.

Ummm.... why would a heretical Gnostic text have anything to do with the Templar Knights some 1300 years later?

 

[Squirt]

I suppose some people will be impressed with how much diversity there was in early Christianity.

That, more than anything else, was what struck a chord with me.

 

[Buttons*]

That, more than anything else, was what struck a chord with me.

Well, thats one of the reasons Paul's letters were important. Christian sects were all varied on belief and structure... none of them really had one set doctrine until Constantine chose the Bible

 

[FFH]

Matthew 26: 24
The Son of man goeth as it is written of him; but woe unto that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! It had been good for that man if he had not been born.

Mark 14: 21
The Son of man indeed goeth, as it is written of him; but woe to that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! Good were it for that man if he had never been born.

Luke 22: 22
And truly the Son of man goeth, as it was determined; but woe unto that man by whom he is betrayed!

 

[Nehustan]

Ummm.... why would a heretical Gnostic text have anything to do with the Templar Knights some 1300 years later?

Well the text wouldn't, tho' it may add creedence to the Temple's 'heresy'. I think as delineated in the thread 'Muslims and Judas' the 'Judas Theory' of Islam very much relates to the accusations against the Templar. I could delineate but I would be merely repeating our debate in the other thread.

 

[Nehustan]

To just briefly cover part of the Templar heresy in light of Islam, let us consider Baphomet. Baphomet is a very interesting concept. It comes to us via the accusations against the Templar who were accused of worshipping an idol called Baphomet and/or one called 'Ya Allah' (Source: Malcom Barber, 1993, The Trial of the Templars , Cambridge University Press, Cambridge, UK.) and in fact in the medieval period, prior and during the crusades (and really till present) there has been an association with Islam and idolatry and/or 'satanism', i.e. Muslims worshipping an idol called Mahmut (Source: Edward Blanks and Michael Frassetto (Eds.), 1999, Western Views of Islam in Medieval and Early Modern Europe : Perception of Other, St. Martin's Press, New York, NY, USA) with people not suprisingly drawing the conclusion that Baphomet and Mahmut where one in the same, with Islam being often seen (if only by illeducated subjugates rather than learned clerics) as the religion of the Devil. This association is still often made and it can be argued that Rusdie capitalised on this perception within the Occident to sell his book which draws on a the story of false revelation concerning the 'daughters of Allah' which were pagan idols at the Kabba in Mecca.