RabbiO
הרב יונה בן זכריה
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Judaism
- Thread starter Byjayfzv
- Start date
gsa
Well-Known Member
Yes, largely as a result of birth rates. Tell me, what is the religious status of someone born to a Muslim father?
Flankerl
Well-Known Member
>actively discussing with a wall
Okay people enough is enough. In its last post the wall wrote exactly the usual "hurr durr Judaism is wrong"-BS the wall has been writing EVER SINCE HE WAS BUILD.
Don't make this into one of this stupid never ending Threads.
You can not discuss or debate with a wall. If you kick the ball towards the wall it comes right back and hits you in your face.
Don't be that person.
Go out and talk a walk.
Okay people enough is enough. In its last post the wall wrote exactly the usual "hurr durr Judaism is wrong"-BS the wall has been writing EVER SINCE HE WAS BUILD.
Don't make this into one of this stupid never ending Threads.
You can not discuss or debate with a wall. If you kick the ball towards the wall it comes right back and hits you in your face.
Don't be that person.
Go out and talk a walk.
RabbiO
הרב יונה בן זכריה
You are right. I've modified my post (#101) to simply be dismissive and not derisive.
I will now exit stage right and walk off into the sunset..... which is pretty good given that it is still mid-day where I am.
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
paarsurrey said: ↑
Now whatever the Jews do, if their father and or mother are Jews one remains Jew, even one becomes an Atheist.
That proves my point that Judaism is racial.
Regards
Now whatever the Jews do, if their father and or mother are Jews one remains Jew, even one becomes an Atheist.
That proves my point that Judaism is racial.
Regards
rosends
Well-Known Member
Not really. At best it proves that to a certain degree and in certain ways, Judaism is passed genetically. If a woman converts into Judaism, her child is born Jewish, proving that the issue is genes, not race.
amorphous_constellation
Well-Known Member
I read the question more as.... how do you prove it to be true for yourselves? It still has to be true to someone, even if it's not really about 'belief' there is still a system someone has to believe in .
JacobEzra.
Dr. Greenthumb
Tumah
Veteran Member
I think you "prove" something to someone who doubts it. If you were born with it, then you don' need it to be proven, you already believe it.
JacobEzra.
Dr. Greenthumb
But it's system you don't have to believe in at all
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
It is a good thing to walk and talk, it improves one's health and ends one's loneliness.
You are a nice person.
You cannot resist having conversation with me. I like the Jews, they are good friends to discuss with.
Never even give way to the thought that I am trying to convince you. I don't need to.
Regards
amorphous_constellation
Well-Known Member
Well I mean, hypothetically you could still leave it, right? And leaving anything indicates doubt, I think.
amorphous_constellation
Well-Known Member
I don't know. I'll think on that, I don't know that anybody is born subscribing to any system until it is given them. Don't time have time to think on this more, got to go.
Harmonious
Well-Known Member
That's right. You cannot prove faith, and we don't bother to try.
I have no idea where you got this idea.
From their descent into Egypt from Canaan, the Children of Israel were just that: descended from Jacob and his four wives, Rachel, Leah, Bilhah, and Zilpah.
Numbers 27 gives a comprehensive explanation that once the Jews (or, as discussed, the Children of Israel) moved back to Canaan, conquered it from the Canaanites, and settled there, HOW tribal descent and inheritance of land is supposed to work.
The Children of Israel were more or less NAMED Judeans once the Ten Tribes separated from Judea, which included the tribes Judah, Benjamin, and Levi, who lived scattered throughout. So... Calling the people from the Kingdom of Judea Jews makes sense.
I'm not sure where you have the idea that "narrators, clergy, and scribes played havoc" with anything.
No. All of the descendants of Israel, and whoever converted in, were called Jews, because the Kingdom of the Ten Tribes was exiled and lost, and no one knows what became of them.
There are people who claim that the Tribe of Dan was found in Ethiopia, and that Menashe was in India, but I'm not sure how much credence to give these theories.
Because the people from the Kingdom of Judea, whichever tribe (or no tribe) maintained the unique identity of the Jewish people, we are ALL Jews, whether we were born that way or converted in.
No one got cut off from anything just by calling us Jews.
More or less. But if one converts out... while they still are Jewish, as far as we believe God is concerned, they are no longer counted amongst Jews AS Jews, unless they convert back.
So, oddly enough... Jews who become atheists are closer connected to their heritage than Jews who convert to a different faith.
And I am not of the opinion that atheism IS a faith, although I understand that this point is debatable.
Harmonious
Well-Known Member
I hear ya. I just wanted to try to share some ideas with others who are playing. I realize that I'm not convincing anyone who has already made up their minds. Still, it is worth mentioning the answers to the questions, in case anyone else is actually interested in the answers.
Harmonious
Well-Known Member
Usually, there are lessons to learn involving day to day activity, and how certain life cycle, or yearly cycle events seem to coincide with world events (local, national, Israeli, or global), and when it coincides with what we are learning, it often serves as "proof."
However, someone outside the belief system would find this "circular reasoning."
Feeding disingenuous trolling is counterproductive.
Harmonious
Well-Known Member
No, Moses is not, any more than you would suggest that Muhammad was. God was the Law Giver. Moses was the teacher, the Prophet par excellence. None, with the exception (perhaps) of Adam, Eve, and Cain (and, oddly, Bilaam), ever had such clarity in prophecy.
That isn't to say that other prophets didn't exist. They DID receive messages from God, certainly, and divine inspiration abounded in many works found in the canon of Tanach. (Envision the totality of what Christians call the Old Testament, and there you go.)
As you suggested, none of the later prophets, even as early as Joshua, could actually gainsay law that was taught by Moses. However, that doesn't mean that there isn't a good deal of holiness in the other prophets and other writings in Tanach.
And, as you may have missed, Moses was taught Law that was intended to be Oral, which has the function for Judaism and Torah law as Hadith has for Islam.
If you would not be so crass as to call Hadith "narrators/clergy/scribes played havoc with the Word of Revelation", please refrain from doing so again when describing the development of Jewish law.
Nice. Inevitably ineffective, but nice.
RabbiO
הרב יונה בן זכריה
Our friend, like many other Muslims likes to trot out, completely without context, Jeremiah 8:8, and refuses to consider anything at variance to his "understanding."