Judaism: Who were David's enemies he cursed in Psalms 109 ?

[paarsurrey]

Judaism: Who were David's enemies he cursed in Psalms* 109 ?

Your thoughts please.
Everybody is welcome to post whether pertaining to a religion or not.
Regards

*#2

 

[paarsurrey]

Tehillim - Psalms - Chapter 109

1For the conductor. Of David, a song. O God of my praise, be not silent. אלַמְנַצֵּחַ לְדָוִד מִזְמוֹר אֱלֹהֵי תְהִלָּתִי אַל תֶּחֱרַשׁ:
2For the mouth of a wicked man and the mouth of a deceitful man have opened upon me; they spoke with me with a lying tongue. בכִּי פִי רָשָׁע וּפִי מִרְמָה עָלַי פָּתָחוּ דִּבְּרוּ אִתִּי לְשׁוֹן שָׁקֶר:
3And with words of hatred they have surrounded me, and they have fought with me without cause. גוְדִבְרֵי שִׂנְאָה סְבָבוּנִי וַיִּלָּחֲמוּנִי חִנָּם:
4Instead of my love, they persecute me, but I am at prayer. דתַּחַת אַהֲבָתִי יִשְֹטְנוּנִי וַאֲנִי תְפִלָּה:
5They have imposed upon me evil instead of good and hatred instead of my love. הוַיָּשִׂימוּ עָלַי רָעָה תַּחַת טוֹבָה וְשִׂנְאָה תַּחַת אַהֲבָתִי:
6Set a wicked man over him, and let an adversary stand at his right hand. והַפְקֵד עָלָיו רָשָׁע וְשָׂטָן יַעֲמֹד עַל יְמִינוֹ:
7When he is judged, let him emerge guilty, and let his prayer be accounted as a sin. זבְּהִשָּׁפְטוֹ יֵצֵא רָשָׁע וּתְפִלָּתוֹ תִּהְיֶה לַחֲטָאָה:
8May his days be few, and may someone else take his office of dignity. חיִהְיוּ יָמָיו מְעַטִּים פְּקֻדָּתוֹ יִקַּח אַחֵר:
9May his sons be orphans and his wife a widow. טיִהְיוּ בָנָיו יְתוֹמִים וְאִשְׁתּוֹ אַלְמָנָה:
10May his sons wander, and [people] should ask and search from their ruins. יוְנוֹעַ יָנוּעוּ בָנָיו וְשִׁאֵלוּ וְדָרְשׁוּ מֵחָרְבוֹתֵיהֶם:
11May a creditor search out all he has, and may strangers despoil his labor. יאיְנַקֵּשׁ נוֹשֶׁה לְכָל אֲשֶׁר לוֹ וְיָבֹזּוּ זָרִים יְגִיעוֹ:
12May he have none who extends kindness, and may no one be gracious to his orphans. יבאַל יְהִי לוֹ מֹשֵׁךְ חָסֶד וְאַל יְהִי חוֹנֵן לִיתוֹמָיו:
13May his end be to be cut off; in another generation may their name be blotted out. יגיְהִי אַחֲרִיתוֹ לְהַכְרִית בְּדוֹר אַחֵר יִמַּח שְׁמָם:
14May the iniquity against his forefathers be remembered by the Lord, and may the sin against his mother not be erased. ידיִזָּכֵר | עֲו‍ֹן אֲבֹתָיו אֶל יְהֹוָה וְחַטַּאת אִמּוֹ אַל תִּמָּח:
15May they be before the Lord constantly, and may He cut off their remembrance from the earth. טויִהְיוּ נֶגֶד יְהֹוָה תָּמִיד וְיַכְרֵת מֵאֶרֶץ זִכְרָם:
16Because he did not remember to do kindness, and he pursued a poor and needy man, and a broken-hearted one, to kill [him]. טזיַעַן אֲשֶׁר | לֹא זָכַר עֲשׂוֹת חָסֶד וַיִּרְדֹּף אִישׁ עָנִי וְאֶבְיוֹן וְנִכְאֵה לֵבָב לְמוֹתֵת:
17And he loved a curse, and it came upon him; and he did not desire a blessing, and it distanced itself from him. יזוַיֶּאֱהַב קְלָלָה וַתְּבוֹאֵהוּ וְלֹא חָפֵץ בִּבְרָכָה וַתִּרְחַק מִמֶּנּוּ:
18And he donned a curse like his garment, and it came into his midst like water and into his bones like oil. יחוַיִּלְבַּשׁ קְלָלָה כְּמַדּוֹ וַתָּבֹא כַמַּיִם בְּקִרְבּוֹ וְכַשֶּׁמֶן בְּעַצְמוֹתָיו:
19May it be to him as a garment with which he envelops himself and as a girdle with which he constantly girds himself. יטתְּהִי לוֹ כְּבֶגֶד יַעְטֶּה וּלְמֵזַח תָּמִיד יַחְגְּרֶהָ:
20This is the recompense of my adversaries from the Lord, and those who speak evil upon my soul. כזֹאת | פְּעֻלַּת שׂטְנַי מֵאֵת יְהֹוָה וְהַדֹּבְרִים רָע עַל נַפְשִׁי:
21But You, O God, my Lord, do with me for Your name's sake, for Your kindness is good; save me. כאוְאַתָּה | יֱהֹוִה אֲדֹנָי עֲשֵׂה אִתִּי לְמַעַן שְׁמֶךָ כִּי טוֹב חַסְדְּךָ הַצִּילֵנִי:
22For I am poor and needy, and my heart has died within me. כבכִּי עָנִי וְאֶבְיוֹן אָנֹכִי וְלִבִּי חָלַל בְּקִרְבִּי:
23Like a shadow when it lengthens, I was driven about; I was stirred up like a locust. כגכְּצֵל כִּנְטוֹתוֹ נֶהֱלָכְתִּי נִנְעַרְתִּי כָּאַרְבֶּה:
24My knees stumbled from fasting, and my flesh became emaciated from fat. כדבִּרְכַּי כָּשְׁלוּ מִצּוֹם וּבְשָׂרִי כָּחַשׁ מִשָּׁמֶן:
25And I was a disgrace to them; they would see me, they would shake their head. כהוַאֲנִי | הָיִיתִי חֶרְפָּה לָהֶם יִרְאוּנִי יְנִיעוּן רֹאשָׁם:
26Help me, O Lord, my God; save me according to Your kindness. כועָזְרֵנִי יְהֹוָה אֱלֹהָי הוֹשִׁיעֵנִי כְחַסְדֶּךָ:
27And they should know that this is Your hand; You, O Lord, have done it. כזוְיֵדְעוּ כִּי יָדְךָ זֹּאת אַתָּה יְהֹוָה עֲשִׂיתָהּ:
28Let them curse and You will bless; they rose up and were ashamed, but Your servant will rejoice. כחיְקַלְלוּ הֵמָּה וְאַתָּה תְבָרֵךְ קָמוּ | וַיֵּבֹשׁוּ וְעַבְדְּךָ יִשְׂמָח:
29May my adversaries don disgrace and enwrap themselves with their shame like a cloak. כטיִלְבְּשׁוּ שׂוֹטְנַי כְּלִמָּה וְיַעֲטוּ כַמְעִיל בָּשְׁתָּם:
30I shall thank the Lord exceedingly with my mouth, and among many people I shall praise Him. לאוֹדֶה יְהֹוָה מְאֹד בְּפִי וּבְתוֹךְ רַבִּים אֲהַלְלֶנּוּ:
31For He will stand to the right of the needy to save [him] from those who judge his soul.לאכִּי יַעֲמֹד לִימִין אֶבְיוֹן לְהוֹשִׁיעַ מִשֹּׁפְטֵי נַפְשׁוֹ:

http://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/16330
Regards

 

[Tumah]

I just want to see if Judaism answers.

 

[rosends]

Wait -- the psalm never mentions the word "enemies." Please explain what you are asking.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

Trolls still snickering over his play dates with Jonathan?

 

[John D. Brey]

Judaism: Who were David's enemies he cursed in Psalms* 109 ?

Your thoughts please.
Everybody is welcome to post whether pertaining to a religion or not.
Regards

*#2

. . . I'm not Judaism but I played him in a high school play based on The Merchant of Venice.



John

 

[user4578]

These may be some examples of who he may have been directly addressing or referring to:

cmp. 1 Samuel 24:16-19/1 Samuel 26:2, 1 Samuel 25:10-11/1 Samuel 25:21, 1 Samuel 30:6, 1 Samuel 30:22-23

2 Samuel 6:20-22, 2 Samuel 15:9-13, 2 Samuel 15:29-31, cmp. 2 Samuel 9:6-7/2 Samuel 16:3-4, 2 Samuel 16:5-8, 2 Samuel 19:5-7

1 Kings 2:5

 

[paarsurrey]

These may be some examples of who he may have been directly addressing or referring to:
cmp. 1 Samuel 24:16-19/1 Samuel 26:2, 1 Samuel 25:10-11/1 Samuel 25:21, 1 Samuel 30:6, 1 Samuel 30:22-23
2 Samuel 6:20-22, 2 Samuel 15:9-13, 2 Samuel 15:29-31, cmp. 2 Samuel 9:6-7/2 Samuel 16:3-4, 2 Samuel 16:5-8, 2 Samuel 19:5-7
1 Kings 2:5

Thanks for providing information and your hard-work in this connection .
I think those whom David cursed were all from Israelites, not sure.
Are there any clues in the text to short list from the above, or from other books/chapters/verses?
Regards

 

[Flankerl]

These may be some examples of who he may have been directly addressing or referring to:

cmp. 1 Samuel 24:16-19/1 Samuel 26:2, 1 Samuel 25:10-11/1 Samuel 25:21, 1 Samuel 30:6, 1 Samuel 30:22-23

2 Samuel 6:20-22, 2 Samuel 15:9-13, 2 Samuel 15:29-31, cmp. 2 Samuel 9:6-7/2 Samuel 16:3-4, 2 Samuel 16:5-8, 2 Samuel 19:5-7

1 Kings 2:5

So he addressed Saul who was long dead when the Psalms were written.

Probably afraid of Zombie Saul.

Thanks for providing information .
I think those whom David cursed were all from Israelites.
Regards

Let me guess, the Scribes.

You have to come up with new stuff, this is becoming far too easy.

 

[metis]

Thanks for providing information .
I think those whom David cursed were all from Israelites.
Regards

And I think you're cherry-picking what actually is in the scriptures to suit just your own point.

Ya know, two could play this game, as I could go through the Qur'an, which I have read btw, and by just citing select verses I could make Islam look like the most despicable religion on Earth, especially if I were to combine that with what many Muslims have done over the centuries and recent decades. But I don't and won't do that because I don't believe in practicing religious bigotry myself whereas I would have intent to demean and belittle any religion, including yours.

 

[paarsurrey]

And I think you're cherry-picking what actually is in the scriptures to suit just your own point.
Ya know, two could play this game, as I could go through the Qur'an, which I have read btw, and by just citing select verses I could make Islam look like the most despicable religion on Earth, especially if I were to combine that with what many Muslims have done over the centuries and recent decades. But I don't and won't do that because I don't believe in practicing religious bigotry myself whereas I would have intent to demean and belittle any religion, including yours.

I love Moses and the Revelation he received from Yahweh, and the Prophets of Yahweh like David, Isaiah, Ezekiel, Jonah and Jesus who followed Moses.
My sincere intention is that all the present Judaism people should follow Moses and the Prophets of Yahweh.
Please don't get me wrong.
Regards

 

[rosends]

I love Moses and the Revelation he received from Yahweh, and the Prophets of Yahweh like David, Isaiah, Ezekiel, Jonah and Jesus who followed Moses.
My sincere intention is that all the present Judaism people should follow Moses and the Prophets of Yahweh.
Please don't get me wrong.
Regards

and don't forget Joseph Smith.

 

[paarsurrey]

and don't forget Joseph Smith.

Do you believe in Joseph Smith?
Regards

 

[rosends]

Do you believe in Joseph Smith?
Regards

No, but you have established that you have to, so I'm just trying to help you remember all those who claim to have spoken with God.

Remember this. So you list all those who claim it, and I just added the one you forgot. I can find others that you must believe in also if you would like. Such as the homeless guy on the street who says god speaks to him.

 

[paarsurrey]

Psalms - Chapter 109
31 For He will stand to the right of the needy to save [him] from those who judge his soul.

Wycliffe's Bible
31 Which stood nigh on the right half of a poor man; to make safe my soul from pursuers. (For he standeth close to the right hand of the poor; to save them from their pursuers, or their persecutors.)

NET Bible
31 because he stands at the right hand of the needy,to deliver him from those who threaten his life.

I have Catholic Bible* in Urdu, it translates it "fatwa daney waley" or those who issue edicts. Who issued edicts in the Israelites in times of David?

*Urdu Edition 1958, Kalam-e-Muqaddus ka Ehde Etiq wa Ehde Jadid, Society of Saint Paul 1958 translated from Vulgate.
Anybody please.

Regards

 

[Sleeppy]

His brothers.

 

[metis]

I love Moses and the Revelation he received from Yahweh, and the Prophets of Yahweh like David, Isaiah, Ezekiel, Jonah and Jesus who followed Moses.
My sincere intention is that all the present Judaism people should follow Moses and the Prophets of Yahweh.
Please don't get me wrong.
Regards

That is our choice to make as individual Jews, not yours. I don't tell you how you should carry out your Islamic faith as I consider that to be condescending and rude.

 

[rosends]

That is our choice to make as individual Jews, not yours. I don't tell you how you should carry out your Islamic faith as I consider that to be condescending and rude.

I have no problem with what was written as his wish but only because I don't agree with the list of prophets he starts with.

 

[metis]

I have no problem with what was written as his wish but only because I don't agree with the list of prophets he starts with.

The problem I have is with his word "should", which goes well beyond "wish".

 

[paarsurrey]

So he addressed Saul who was long dead when the Psalms were written.
Probably afraid of Zombie Saul.

The poetry ( at least in Indo-Pak sub-continent) is first made verbally and published later.
The scribes would have sided with Saul the king and issued edicts against David and would have done cruelties on him.
Regards