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Judaism: land grabbing in the name of Jacob (aka Israel) or Abraham

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by paarsurrey, Jul 31, 2014.

  1. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    Are Jews/Judaism people doing it exactly?

    Your thoughts, please

    Regards
     
  2. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    Abraham was a righteous person.

    He was chosen by G-d. He was assigned some area for his ministry by G-d. He never took it that that land was allotted to him as a estate to rule or to occupy it.

    When his wife Sarah died he purchased land in Hebron from the Hittites to bury his wife Sarah; which was only located within Canaan. If Canaan was allotted to him by G-d or to his descendants; then he should have no need to buy the piece of land for burying his wife.

    That clearly show that Abraham was not a land grabber (nor Isaac nor Jacob) and he knew what was actually meant by G-d by saying that G-d has given him Canaan or his descendants;it was for spiritual reformation; not as an estate.

    The corrupt narrators/scribes/clergy whose real business is land-grabbing made it up as if that land has been allotted by G-d to Abraham for ruling and occupying as an estate to displace the people who were lawfully already living there.

    Regards
     
  3. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    Genesis - Chapter 23:17-20

    17. And so the field of Ephron which was in Machpelah, facing Mamre, was established (as Abraham's possession). [This included] the field and the cave that was in it, and all the trees that were in the field, which were within its entire border around.
    18. [It was] to Abraham as a possession before the eyes of the sons of Heth, in the presence of all who had come within the gate of his city.
    19. And afterwards, Abraham buried Sarah his wife in the cave of the field of Machpelah, facing Mamre, which is Hebron, in the land of Canaan.
    20. And the field and the cave within it were established to Abraham as burial property, [purchased] from the sons of Heth.

    Genesis - Chapter 23 (Parshah Chayei Sarah) - Tanakh Online - Torah - Bible
     
  4. Sleeppy

    Sleeppy Fatalist. Christian. Pacifist.

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    None of this is verifiable. God alone owns the Earth; this is verifiable.
     
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  5. Estro Felino

    Estro Felino Believer in free will
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    well...God loves all the people of the world. The concept of "a chosen people" is devilish.
    By the way the old testament is full of anti-Christian things. How can it be considered believable?
     
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  6. Nakosis

    Nakosis crystal soldier
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    People grab and hold land by force, that's about it.
    They can justify this by whatever means they feel comfortable with.
    I really doubt God has anything to do with it.
     
  7. outhouse

    outhouse Atheistically

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    He never existed as a person. He is said to be a literary creation. :facepalm:


    He is not historical and they gave up trying to make hum such.

    Abraham - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    despite sporadic attempts by more conservative scholars such as Kenneth Kitchen to save the patriarchal narratives as history, archaeologists had "given up hope of recovering any context that would make Abraham, Isaac or Jacob credible 'historical figures.
     
  8. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    I quoted from Torah:Genesis that Abraham was a righteous person.
    If you think that Abraham never existed; then you endorse that Torah is fabricated/corrupted.

    Genesis 15:5-6
    5. And He took him outside, and He said, "Please look heavenward and count the stars, if you are able to count them." And He said to him, "So will be your seed."
    6. And he believed in the Lord, and He accounted it to him as righteousness.

    http://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/8210

    Regards
     
    #8 paarsurrey, Jul 31, 2014
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2014
  9. outhouse

    outhouse Atheistically

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    the same corruption in your mythology which was plagiarized from these accounts.
     
  10. xkatz

    xkatz Well-Known Member

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    Jesus is considered by Christians to be a fulfillment of the 'Old Testament'. So if it isn't believable to Christians, it would seem to negate the purpose and proclaimed divinity of Jesus Christ, wouldn't it?
     
  11. Estro Felino

    Estro Felino Believer in free will
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    I am not saying that it is all anti-Christian. But the destruction of Sodom, and the portrayal of a vengeful, blood-thirsty, jealous God are not Christian-like
     
  12. gnostic

    gnostic The Lost One

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    The same could be said of Muhammad and that of Muslims in his time and after his death.

    Did Muhammad have the right to conquer all of the Arabian peninsula?

    Did Muslims have the rights to invade Syria and Persia after the prophet's death, hence "grabbing lands"? Then much of North Africa, to Spain, in the west, or through Central Asia all the way to east in Indian subcontinent?

    Does Muslims have the right of grabbing lands or ruling them?

    Muslims like you are hypocritical about what you deem to be right and not right for others. It seem alright for you to invade, but not for others, is nothing short of double standard.

    If it is wrong for Moses' people to do so, then it should be damn wrong for Muhammad or Muslims to do so. You can't have it both ways.

    It is funny that you think it is wrong for the Israelites to invade Canaan, led by 2 prophets at that time, but right for Muhammad to act like a [email protected]@dy tyrant in Medina, and later the rest of Arabia.

    This is why I think your god is [email protected]@dy hypocrite, and wouldn't like to convert either to Christianity or to Islam, because they have double-standard teachings.

    Note that I didn't include converting to Judaism, because Judaism doesn't actively seek conversion of outsiders, and I don't have the bloodline to be a Jew. And second, Judaism is not seeking to conquer or to convert the world; they only sought the land that god had promise to the 3 patriarchs, and to Moses, the land that used to be called Canaan.

    Both Christianity and Islam do have a history of seeking conversion, whether by peaceful means or by force (and even both). And they seek to expand outside their respective places of origins. But Muslims seemed to be too blind to see it.
     
  13. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    How can the "Old Testament" be "anti-Christian" when it was written before Jesus even existed?

    Secondly, have you ever read the entire Tanakh or the Talmud, both of which spell out for us the direction our faith should be taking? There's no doubt that there are parts of the Torah are rough, but both Tanakh and Talmud moderate that harshness. If you study both Jewish and Christian history, I think you'll see that we've been much more docile.
     
  14. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
    Premium Member It's My Birthday!

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    It's pretty easy if one construes Christianity as being anti-Jewish.
     
  15. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    After reading what he posted later, I'm inclined to think that he's not anti-Jewish but probably just has trouble with some of the "O.T." narratives-- which I do as well, as you know.
     
  16. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
    Premium Member It's My Birthday!

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    I don't know why either of us are not simply ignoring this ignorant garbage.
     
  17. roger1440

    roger1440 I do stuff

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    tou·ché

    —used to acknowledge a hit in fencing or the success or appropriateness of an argument, an accusation, or a witty point
     
  18. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    Jesus was a Jew; he never claimed to be a god or son of god in literal and physical terms.

    Regards
     
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