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Featured Journey of the Soul and idea of physical resurrection

Discussion in 'Scriptural Debates' started by InvestigateTruth, Feb 12, 2019.

  1. InvestigateTruth

    InvestigateTruth Well-Known Member

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    Most Holy Books teaches human has a soul. The Books also talk about a future event, when there will be resurrection of the dead.

    For those who believe in these Books, that human has a soul, which lives on after the death of body, and eventually on the day of judgment comes to the physically resurrected body:
    How does this idea logially make sense to you?
    Why would God resurrect the body physically and return the soul to it, if the soul by itself can just lives on?
     
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  2. Remté

    Remté Active Member

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    I think it's just a way of putting it for the people. How would the Quran for instance describe *souls* eating fruits in the garden?
     
  3. InvestigateTruth

    InvestigateTruth Well-Known Member

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    Well, you are somewhat familiar with how I think we need to learn interpretations of Quran. We need to see how Those who were well grounded in knowledge interpreted them.
    When I investigated, i learned They interpreted Resurrection metaphorically. They have said 'Dead' is an allusion to the unbelievers, spiritually dead people are misguided. 'Alive' is an allusion to the believers, who are guided. Resurrection of the Dead, means, God will turn the unbelievers who are 'as dead' to believers, who are spiritually alive. He will accomplish that, by guiding humanity through a new Person, who is the Qaim, or the Mahdi. Thus, according to Them, there won't be a literal physical Resurrection, but a new guidance who will revive people spirtually.
     
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  4. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    Where do they get all those "virgins"? And do the "virgins" have a "soul" or are they the living dead of the unbelievers? As the "soul" defined in Genesis 2:7 is the "dust from the ground", combined with the "breath" of "LORD God", how is it you have a soul, if the "dust from the ground" has returned to the ground?
     
  5. InvestigateTruth

    InvestigateTruth Well-Known Member

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    It depends if we take those words literal, or consider a figurative, spiritual, and symbolic meaning.
     
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  6. Hockeycowboy

    Hockeycowboy Well-Known Member
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    Actually, the Bible does not teach that man 'has' a soul; it teaches that man *"is"* a soul.
    Genesis 2:7...."the man became a living soul".

    "The Books also talk about a future event, when there will be resurrection of the dead."

    Now this, the Bible teaches. Acts of the Apostles 24:15.

    The teaching of 'the immortal soul', so common in many religions, actually contradicts the teaching of the *future* Resurrection.

    (If the dead are alive after death, then there is no need for a future Resurrection....they're already living!)

    The Resurrection
     
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  7. Hockeycowboy

    Hockeycowboy Well-Known Member
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    Did Jesus literally or figuratively resurrect Lazarus? Or Jairus' daughter?

    What did Elijah do? What did Paul do, to Eutychus?

    These were literal.

    What does the Greek word (in the NT) mean, and how is it used?
     
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  8. Deeje

    Deeje Deeje
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    The Bible does not teach this at all. When the Hebrew word for "soul" is used, it refers to a living, breathing creature, either animals or human. "Souls' are not immaterial things that live in a material body....they are alive only on earth.

    The ancient Jews that adhered to their scripture, believed in a physical resurrection back to this earth. There was no immortal soul ever mentioned. This idea was adopted from the Greeks.....you won't find it in the Bible at all, either in the OT or the NT.

    It never did, that is why I went searching for the truth. Are the dead really dead? Did God tell Adam that he would go to hell if he sinned?...or to heaven if he was good? Neither of those things were even mentioned. It was simply a matter of...."obey and live....disobey and die".....nothing more.

    Jesus promised a spiritual resurrection for those chosen to rule with him in his kingdom, (Revelation 20:6) but for the majority of humankind, their resurrection will be back to this earth to enjoy the life God intended at the beginning.

    In John 5:28-29 Jesus said...."Do not be amazed at this, for the hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will hear his voice 29 and come out, those who did good things to a resurrection of life, and those who practiced vile things to a resurrection of judgment."

    When Jesus said that he was indicating that this event was yet future. People's graves are here on earth and the dead, both the righteous and the unrighteous are called out of them. (Acts 24:15)
    Since we have no 'soul' to to return to the body, God meant something different when he said that the "spirit" returns to God at death. (Ecclesiastes 12:7) Are the "soul" and the "spirit" one and the same thing? Most people assume so. But the Bible does not teach this.

    But think about this......Adam was created from the elements of the earth and "God breathed into his nostrils the "breath" (spirit) of life and the man became a living "soul". (Genesis 2:7)

    In Hebrew, these two words are used to mean two completely different things.
    The first is "nĕshamah" which always means "breath". It is never used as some conscious, immaterial part of man...it is just the breath in his lungs.

    The second word is "nephesh" which can rightly be translated "living being" or "creature". This word likewise is never used to describe some immaterial part of man. It is used for both animals and humans who breathe the same air and die the same death. (Ecclesiastes 3:19-20)

    So what is "resurrected" is the recreated physical body of a person, with the breath restored to again become a "soul".

    When you think about it, the idea that we don't really die is just a perpetuation if the first that the devil told in Eden.
     
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  9. Tumah

    Tumah Veteran Member

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    Why don't you ask why G-d put a soul in the body in the first place if the soul can live on by itself?
     
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  10. InvestigateTruth

    InvestigateTruth Well-Known Member

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    Sure, good question. Why did He?
     
  11. InvestigateTruth

    InvestigateTruth Well-Known Member

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    How do we know it was physical resurrection? Maybe it is a symbolic story, with many spiritual meanings in a figurative language.
     
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  12. Jedster

    Jedster Well-Known Member

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    Obviously because He didn't want a bunch of golems staggering about.
    That would be a boring show.
     
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  13. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg A World Citizen
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    With all that we must cosider this;

    John 6:63 "The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you--they are full of the Spirit and life."

    Regards Tony
     
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  14. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg A World Citizen
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    John was also Elijah;

    Matthew 11:14 "And if you are willing to accept it, he is the Elijah who was to come."

    How was John, Elijah?

    We must also consider that at the 2nd appearance of Christ that;

    Matthew 17:11 "And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elijah truly shall first come, and restore all things."

    Thus we can expect another person, with another name, with the same fruits of the Spirit as Elijah and John, a person that prepares the way.

    Regards Tony
     
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  15. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    What is the figurative, spiritual, and symbolic meaning of 72 virgins for someone who blows up a building full of people, and takes his own life in the process? Are they going to be disappointed when they find their prize is a handful of "symbolic meaning"? Is there an appeals process for these apparently ill informed dead warriors? Do they get a do over?
     
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  16. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    Following Mathew 17:11 is Matthew 17:12,"Elijah ready came".
     
  17. Remté

    Remté Active Member

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    What new guidance?
     
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  18. Remté

    Remté Active Member

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    There is and never was a metaphor of 72 virgins.
     
  19. Deeje

    Deeje Deeje
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    Taken in context, what did Jesus say? He was responding to those who stumbled at his words regarding 'eating his flesh and drinking his blood' which were obviously figurative, not literal. Taken literally, the disciples were horrified at what he said.

    He asked.....“Does this stumble you? 62 What, therefore, if you should see the Son of man ascending to where he was before? 63 It is the spirit that is life-giving; the flesh is of no use at all. The sayings that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life. 64 But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning those who did not believe and the one who would betray him. 65 He went on to say: “This is why I have said to you, no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.”

    At this juncture, the disciples did not know about the spiritual application of his words. They were expecting his resurrection to be earthly and his kingdom to be established here, over the Jewish nation.....but after Jesus' return to heaven, the holy spirit was poured out on his disciples, who had stayed in Jerusalem as Jesus had instructed. Only with their anointing with Holy Spirit did these disciples fully comprehend why Jesus had to "ascend to where he was before".

    They were imagining things in a fleshly way, but Jesus was telling them that their future life, like his, would be in the spirit...the flesh would be useless where they were going. This applies only to the chosen ones. They were to be given "the first resurrection" (Revelation 20:6) If there is a "first", others must follow. Jesus shows us that he will resurrect others by raising them to life in the same way as he raised Lazarus. (John 11:11-14)

    For the majority of mankind, the resurrection will be physical....back to this earth where God put us in the first place.

    This is what makes perfect sense to me after many years of Bible study.
     
    #19 Deeje, Feb 14, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2019
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  20. InvestigateTruth

    InvestigateTruth Well-Known Member

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    Did Christ have a physical body before marry was pregnant with Him? Does God the Father have a physical body? If yes, where in scriptures? If no, then why not, if having physical body is required to be alive and important?
     
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