Jordan Peterson on White Privilege

[mikkel_the_dane]

White privilege is just another veiled form of racism set against white people.

Does anybody in their right mind think all white people are privileged?

A simple yes or no would suffice.

Take 2: Have you ever heard of a false dichotomy? I mean just maybe, just maybe there is more to privilege than being white.

 

[columbus]

Read the rest of the thread.

I did.

The answer is No.
In modern USA black people have some privileges that white people do not. White people have some that black people do not. How they balance out depends on your circumstances.

But to listen to some people talk, you'd think it was still 1965.
Tom

 

[epronovost]

I did.

The answer is No.
In modern USA black people have some privileges that white people do not. White people have some that black people do not. How they balance out depends on your circumstances.

But to listen to some people talk, you'd think it was still 1965.
Tom

This is a very strange perspective. You can look at pretty much all indicator and you see that black people are socially disadvantaged on average in pretty much all possible category: poverty, imprisonment, death condamnation, upward mobility, lower life expectancy, unemployment, access to public services, medical bias, hiring and promotional bias, etc. The idea that black people don't have disadvantges compared to white people is frankly ridiculous and not supported by any data or any reasonnable understanding of race relation. What study or data do you based your opinion on?

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

I did.

The answer is No.
In modern USA black people have some privileges that white people do not. White people have some that black people do not. How they balance out depends on your circumstances.

But to listen to some people talk, you'd think it was still 1965.
Tom

So back to a previous thread. Is all that black people(USA) do a result of an insular black culture that is so unique that it is not in contact with the rest of America and not a result of history, economy, white culture and so on.
How do you explain the income difference between white and black?
I might learn something and I am willing to learn, so give your reasoning, please.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

This is a very strange perspective. You can look at pretty much all indicator and you see that black people are socially disadvantaged on average in pretty much all possible category: poverty, imprisonment, death condamnation, upward mobility, lower life expectancy, unemployment, access to public services, medical bias, hiring and promotional bias, etc. The idea that black people don't have disadvantges compared to white people is frankly ridiculous and not supported by any data or any reasonnable understanding of race relation. What study or data do you based your opinion on?

How dare you ask for data, a study or evidence?

 

[columbus]

You can look at pretty much all indicator and you see that black people are socially disadvantaged on average in pretty much all possible category: poverty, imprisonment, death condamnation, upward mobility, lower life expectancy, unemployment, access to public services, medical bias, hiring and promotional bias, etc.

You could also look at the outcomes for black people, without assuming that the problems are white privilege and white racism. This isn't 1965 any more.
Tom

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

You could also look at the outcomes for black people, without assuming that the problems are white privilege and white racism. This isn't 1965 any more.
Tom

That is not evidence.

 

[Revoltingest]

Precisely, the person couldn't see the breaks he got. Further sometimes when you hear stories of people making it despite the odds based on a disadvantaged upbringing something is overlooked. Look up resilient children. Even the genes you get is a lottery. Of course you can train children to be more resilient, but there seems to be a genetic factor.

Further if you are a mediocre child with the right race, sex, gender, parents and close social group you can a lot further in some cases than a bright child with the wrong race, sex, gender, parents and close social group and just because some bright/resilient children make it from a disadvantage doesn't mean that the mediocre child doesn't have an advantage because of in effect being born into better social circumstances.

Read John Rawls and A theory of justice. Some times some people are unaware of the advantages that they are given and which others don't have and those with the advantages take them for granted.

So you believe the problem is that some people have it too good, & don't know it?
Not that some people are disadvantaged?
Again, the "white privilege" perspective appears to describe a problem without
need for solution. This differs from recognizing some being at unfair disadvantage.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

So you believe the problem is that some people have it too good, & don't know it?
Not that some people are disadvantaged?
Again, the "white privilege" perspective appears to describe a problem without
need for solution. This differs from recognizing some being at unfair disadvantage.

Okay, I will try. 2 people are competing for a job. Do you think they are always total equal down to just purely personal individual differences?

 

[epronovost]

You could also look at the outcomes for black people, without assuming that the problems are white privilege and white racism. This isn't 1965 any more.
Tom

There has been plenty of studies on the subject. White racism and bias is still alive and well as are several of the policies and systems designed to keep black people segregated and impoverished. One of the most notorious example would be zoning laws.

 

[Revoltingest]

Okay, I will try. 2 people are competing for a job. Do you think they are always total equal down to just purely personal individual differences?

No.
But that answer would express both perspectives.

 

[Tambourine]

So you believe the problem is that some people have it too good, & don't know it?
Not that some people are disadvantaged?
Again, the "white privilege" perspective appears to describe a problem without
need for solution. This differs from recognizing some being at unfair disadvantage.

What exactly do you expect to gain from engaging in this particular form of pedantery?

 

[Revoltingest]

This is not the first time you've brought this up. Are you going to engage in this particular form of pedantery every single time somebody broaches the subject of racism in the US?

What exactly do you expect to gain from engaging in this particular form of pedantery pedantry?

Learn to read with an open mind, & not to object by making
it about the person. That merely bespeaks a failed argument.

Btw, the inner pedant in me demanded that I fix your post.

 

[Revoltingest]

I did.

The answer is No.
In modern USA black people have some privileges that white people do not. White people have some that black people do not. How they balance out depends on your circumstances.

But to listen to some people talk, you'd think it was still 1965 1865.
Tom

Fixed.

 

[Tambourine]

Yea, everyone knows that racism ended in 1865.

 

[columbus]

Okay, I will try. 2 people are competing for a job. Do you think they are always total equal down to just purely personal individual differences?

This is a good example.
Suppose Bob(white) and Joe(black) are both applying for the same position. They both have nearly identical credentials from comparable universities.

Ann(human resources director) must choose one or the other. One thing she knows is that Bob got his credentials with Affirmative Action working against him, because he's white. Joe always had Affirmative Action policies working in his favor. Standards were lower for him, because he's black.
If Ann is looking to hire the best applicant for the job she will obviously hire Bob.

Not because she's racist, but simply because her job isn't in social services. It's to hire the most qualified applicant for the position, in a world where Affirmative Action is standard procedure.
Tom

 

[epronovost]

So you believe the problem is that some people have it too good, & don't know it?
Not that some people are disadvantaged?

Well that's sidesteping one of the main problem of "white privilege" the fact that some are blind to their advantages makes them de facto blind to some people's disadvantages. Also, black people being in minority will require the help and support of the white majority to solve this injustice. The help and support of the white majority is conditional on their awareness of the problems addressed and their understanding of it as to support solutions that are likely to solve the problems they are supposed to adress. Privilege and disadvantages/discrimination are two sides of the same coin.

 

[Tambourine]

Learn to read with an open mind, & not to object by making
it about the person. That merely bespeaks a failed argument.

Btw, the inner pedant in me demanded that I fix your post.

So there was no point to it,
as I expected.

 

[Quetzal]

There are numerous empirical studies that provide independent lines of evidence leading to the same conclusion -- white privilege is a thing. One of the most famous such experiments is to send out the exact same resumes, but with one resume having a "white name" on it, the other a "black name" on it. The white resumes are called in for job interviews significantly more often than the black resumes, despite there being no difference between them other than the racial cast of their names. Trevor is going to get more job offers than Trevon.

Do you happen to know the name of that study off hand? I will take a look for it myself a bit later because that sounds like something worth looking at.

 

[Revoltingest]

This is a very strange perspective. You can look at pretty much all indicator and you see that black people are socially disadvantaged on average in pretty much all possible category: poverty, imprisonment, death condamnation, upward mobility, lower life expectancy, unemployment, access to public services, medical bias, hiring and promotional bias, etc. The idea that black people don't have disadvantges compared to white people is frankly ridiculous and not supported by any data or any reasonnable understanding of race relation. What study or data do you based your opinion on?

I see no one here denying general disadvantage for blacks relative to whites.
But the apparent claim is that the major problem is "white privilege", not the
losses endured by blacks. That seems an absurd label of the problem.
It's like saying the problem with sick people is "health privileged" people.