John's Word: Did Jesus create the world?

[gnostic]

When we come across the Biblical creation, we normally usually assume we are talking about the few chapters of the Genesis. God created the world, creature and man in 6 days, and then narrative about Adam and Eve.

The Christians also believed in the New Testament, particularly what is found in the Gospel according to John, chapter 1, verses 1-18. It associate the Word (as well as the Light) with Jesus.

Now that not unusual. Authors in the past and present, have long compared figure or character with animals (eg. strong like lion), with elements (eg. she ran like the wind) or even with inanimated objects. The Egyptians have compared and associated their gods with certain animals, eg. Horus as falcon, Wadjet with cobra, etc.

What John says:

Word is Jesus; this is implied with God was made flesh and lived among them (humans). [1:14]

It says that the Word is God (which is the reason why some Christians believed that Jesus is God), and the Word is with God. [1:1]

The Word is God's "only begotten son". [1:18] (Which to my mind, contradicts Word being God from 1:1; can a father be a son?)

Word existed before the world was ever created. [1:2]

And that the Word was involved in the creation: [1:3]

All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Well, I want to a poll on John's version.

Do you believe what John wrote literally? That Jesus have existed before the creation, and was involved with the creation?

Or do you believe that can only be understood as a metaphor?

 

[gnostic]

Damn!

I wanted to do a poll for this thread, but press the Post Reply button by mistake, without checking the poll checkbox.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Damn!

I wanted to do a poll for this thread, but press the Post Reply button by mistake, without checking the poll checkbox.

Delete it and start over again. I vote that Jesus is the incarnate Word. I believe that Revelation backs this up.

 

[gnostic]

There's a delete button for this post here (and post #2), between "Go Advanced" and "Cancel", but the same button doesn't appear in my OP.

Perhaps, one of the moderators can delete it for me.

 

[roli]

Do you believe what John wrote literally? That Jesus have existed before the creation, and was involved with the creation?

Or do you believe that can only be understood as a metaphor?

Absolutely, the secular world will claim much of the gospel's and eptisles are all metaphor's.
We must remember that both Jesus and John spoke in the book of John
Jhn 17:5And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was

 

[Mister Emu]

* * * Mod Post * * *
Poll added​

 

[Ronald]

I vote "Other".

The word of God was not Jesus until He/Yeshua was born of Mariam. The word was made flesh and dwelt amomg us.
Y H V H was still in his abode answering the prayers of Yeshua and all the others for the 30 some odd years of Jesus's earthly existance.
Dr. Blizzard uses the water analogy, Yeshua is a glass of water, but not all the water there is. Yeshua admits He is at least one drop short of Y H V H (i.e.) Mr 13:32 "But of that day or that hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.

BTW, He has a new name, not likely it will be Jesus!

 

[gnostic]

Thank you, Mister Emu for the poll. ...and for your patience with me.

 

[gnostic]

Absolutely, the secular world will claim much of the gospel's and eptisles are all metaphor's.

So you believe that Jesus was the actual creator of the world, as stated in John 1:1-18, literally?

Do you also believe in the Genesis 1, literally, too? (eg. Creation in 6 days? light created before the sun and moon?)

If you believe one literally and the other metaphorically, can you explain why?

 

[roli]

So you believe that Jesus was the actual creator of the world, as stated in John 1:1-18, literally?

Do you also believe in the Genesis 1, literally, too? (eg. Creation in 6 days? light created before the sun and moon?)

If you believe one literally and the other metaphorically, can you explain why?

I believe he was part of the creation process,along side of the Holy Spirit and God
Jesus was the light,life that came into the world with God

 

[Elessar]

Since I, as a modalist, believe that Yeshua was a form of G-d incarnate in human form - then yes.

 

[Watchmen]

Yes - Jesus was the Word and the Word was with God in the beginning. And Jesus created the world at God's direction.

 

[Troublemane]

As the "word" is not present in Genesis, I'd have to say John was embellishing history, rather poetically, and that it was probably added much later, long after Jesus was gone. John's gospel is after all, the last one written, and has the most mythopoetic language.

In my opinion, Jesus was not even thought of when the Septuagint was written, much less back when the world was formed....4 billion years ago.

 

[gnostic]

Is John the only gospel that referred to him as the Word and the Light?

I only recall John make such reference, and with regards to the Light, both in chapter 1, and later in another chapter (though I don't remember which).

 

[Mister Emu]

Thank you, Mister Emu for the poll.

...and for your patience with me.

Very welcome Thanks for your patience with my continual fouling up the wording

For what it is worth, I take John 1 literally...

Do you also believe in the Genesis 1, literally, too? (eg. Creation in 6 days? light created before the sun and moon?)

If you believe one literally and the other metaphorically, can you explain why?

The Bible pretty much tells us to take God's days metaphorically... 2 Peter 3:8 "... one day [is] with the Lord as a thousand years..."

 

[gnostic]

The Bible pretty much tells us to take God's days metaphorically... 2 Peter 3:8 "... one day [is] with the Lord as a thousand years..."

There are 2 different flaws that I can with this verse.

If you take the Genesis 6-day creation as metamorphically, but then what make you think that Peter wasn't speaking metamorphically as well with his 1 day = 1 thousand?

The 2nd thing is that we know humans (modern human) have existed more than 20,000 years, proof due to physical evidences of not just fossils, but tools found in the vincity of the remains. Even if Adam existed a thousand, or even 2000 years, this figures would only make the event of Adam's creation 6700 years (or 7700 years), or respectively 4700 BC and 5700 BC.

(Note that 6 day creation would only be 5700 year ago (3700 BC).

That would still put Adam in the middle of the Neolithic period.

Anyway let stick with 6700 years ago (6th day). Animals were created the same roughly time as Adam, and there were animals long before that.

Add another 1000 years, bringing to 7700 years ago (5th day), about the fishes in the seas. We have examples of fishes that are older than 7700 years ago.

Add yet another 1000 years, hence 8700 years ago (6th day), the sun and moon had existed. Are you telling me that the sun, moon and stars are only 8700 years old????

I seriously think not.

You see where I am going with this.

One-thousand years in 1 day scenario don't make Peter's verse any more likely to be true than the Genesis 6-day.

So I don't think Peter know any better than those who originally wrote the Genesis about the origin of our world and mankind. And applying Peter's verse to the Genesis is only supposition, not fact that's what Peter really meant in context.

 

[Mister Emu]

If you take the Genesis 6-day creation as metamorphically, but then what make you think that Peter wasn't speaking metamorphically as well with his 1 day = 1 thousand?

Who says I don't A day for God = a very long time and I believe that takes care of your other problem

 

[sandy whitelinger]

So you believe that Jesus was the actual creator of the world, as stated in John 1:1-18, literally?

Do you also believe in the Genesis 1, literally, too? (eg. Creation in 6 days? light created before the sun and moon?)

If you believe one literally and the other metaphorically, can you explain why?

People believe whatever they want. The Bible states that Jesus was the creator of the world and creation happened the way it was recorded in Genesis. Light, by the way is not only limited to the sun.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

As the "word" is not present in Genesis, I'd have to say John was embellishing history, rather poetically, and that it was probably added much later, long after Jesus was gone. John's gospel is after all, the last one written, and has the most mythopoetic language.

In my opinion, Jesus was not even thought of when the Septuagint was written, much less back when the world was formed....4 billion years ago.

You get to believe whatever you want. Yours is not the scriptural position.

 

[Jordan St. Francis]

In Genesis we see that God speaks the universe into existing. The Logos is the organizing, rationalizing agent of God. The world was created through him, or by him, but he himself is not the creator in the strict sense. The Father created by means of him.