John William Draper, a contemporary of Darwin, called it the "Mohammadan Theory of Evolution..!!!

[Shia Islam]

John William Draper, a contemporary of Darwin, called it the "Mohammadan Theory of Evolution..!!!

Before beginning my post I want to say that I used to engage in lots of debates with the atheists. Indeed I used to read the atheists writings in order to reply to them…reading the atheists writings made me more firm in my belief in God!

However, after all of these years I came into a realization that people don't disbelieve in God because of lack of evidences. So I almost stopped debating atheists..

I must say however, that the society may also influence the people choice to became atheists..

Anyhow Here is my post for today..Enjoy!

The question of how old atheism is, is attached to the question of how old the Human civilization is..

Atheists have always struggled with the question of the origin of the living creatures..

So when Darwin came with his theory of Evolution, they hastily gripped it and thought that finally they found the answer..

However, many people didn't not know that evolution theory in general, is centuries old..

And as you will see below, Some ancient Muslims have talked about it and "John William Draper, a contemporary of Darwin, called it the "Mohammadan Theory of Evolution"!

But the evolution theory provide no answers to the question of the creation..

With evolution, and without evolution an ultimate explanation of this intelligent existence is needed..!

We see that the child evolve in the womb of his mother in 9 months...But who created him/her?!!

"Charles Darwin is believed to be the first proponent of the evolutionary theory. This paper theorizes another point of view in this regard. Many a Muslim philosopher had already discussed the concept of evolution in their writings prior to Darwin [..] John William Draper, a contemporary of Darwin, called it the "Mohammadan Theory of Evolution"."

http://pu.edu.pk/images/journal/uoc/PDF-FILES/(11) Dr. Sultan Shah_86_2.pdf

 

[danieldemol]

I believe in God and evolution, and if that is your position too welcome to the club

 

[FunctionalAtheist]

John William Draper, a contemporary of Darwin, called it the "Mohammadan Theory of Evolution..!!!

Before beginning my post I want to say that I used to engage in lots of debates with the atheists. Indeed I used to read the atheists writings in order to reply to them…reading the atheists writings made me more firm in my belief in God!

However, after all of these years I came into a realization that people don't disbelieve in God because of lack of evidences. So I almost stopped debating atheists..

I must say however, that the society may also influence the people choice to became atheists..

Anyhow Here is my post for today..Enjoy!

The question of how old atheism is, is attached to the question of how old the Human civilization is..

Atheists have always struggled with the question of the origin of the living creatures..

So when Darwin came with his theory of Evolution, they hastily gripped it and thought that finally they found the answer..

However, many people didn't not know that evolution theory in general, is centuries old..

And as you will see below, Some ancient Muslims have talked about it and "John William Draper, a contemporary of Darwin, called it the "Mohammadan Theory of Evolution"!

But the evolution theory provide no answers to the question of the creation..

With evolution, and without evolution an ultimate explanation of this intelligent existence is needed..!

We see that the child evolve in the womb of his mother in 9 months...But who created him/her?!!



http://pu.edu.pk/images/journal/uoc/PDF-FILES/(11) Dr. Sultan Shah_86_2.pdf

Darwin did not come up with the theory of evolution. Even Aristotle and greeks 300 years before him believed in evolution. What Darwin came up with was the theory of evolution BY NATURAL SELECTION! Darwin was hardly the first to propose a means by which the observation of evolution could be explained. He was just the first to propose a mechanism that has turned out to be consistent with and predictive of further observation.

 

[FunctionalAtheist]

Here is a brief history. https://www.nicholls.edu/biol-ds/biol370/Lectures/History of Evolutionary Thought. 2.pdf

 

[Valjean]

However, after all of these years I came into a realization that people don't disbelieve in God because of lack of evidences. So I almost stopped debating atheists.

What people were these, and why did they disbelieve in God?
Me, I 'disbelieve' for precisely this reason, as do several other, perhaps most, of the posters here on RF.

I must say however, that the society may also influence the people choice to became atheists.

I'll go you one better: We start out as atheists, and it's religion that's the later development. We're born with no concept of God and it's the influence of society that indoctrinates into the mythos of our particular community.

The question of how old atheism is, is attached to the question of how old the Human civilization is.

You have an odd concept of atheism, I think. Why wouldn't it predate civilization?

Atheists have always struggled with the question of the origin of the living creatures.

I doubt that many of us loose any sleep over this.

But the evolution theory provide no answers to the question of the creation.

Nor does the theory of plate tectonics or heliocentrism. Like the ToE, creation isn't a part of their disciplines.
I'd also add that, besides an attribution of agency, religion provides no answer to this question either.

With evolution, and without evolution an ultimate explanation of this intelligent existence is needed!

I'd certainly welcome an explanation, but if we do come up with an answer, it's not going to come from religion. Religion's not an investigative modality, it's not looking for answers. It already has all the "answers" it's willing to entertain.

We see that the child evolve in the womb of his mother in 9 months...But who created him/her?!!

I wouldn't call embryologic development evolution, and I don't see the need to propose a "who."

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Before beginning my post I want to say that I used to engage in lots of debates with the atheists. Indeed I used to read the atheists writings in order to reply to them…reading the atheists writings made me more firm in my belief in God!

Fair enough. I read some religious writings (mostly Christian) but I'm more interested in religious history (not theology so much). It's good to read a variety of things, rather than only what you already believe in.

However, after all of these years I came into a realization that people don't disbelieve in God because of lack of evidences. So I almost stopped debating atheists..

It's probably a different thread, but I'd be interested in why you think people become atheists.

Atheists have always struggled with the question of the origin of the living creatures..

And many other things, I would suspect.

So when Darwin came with his theory of Evolution, they hastily gripped it and thought that finally they found the answer..

It doesn't deal to the origin of living creatures, so that would be akin to grabbing a surfboard whilst jumping out of a plane.

However, many people didn't not know that evolution theory in general, is centuries old..

And as you will see below, Some ancient Muslims have talked about it and "John William Draper, a contemporary of Darwin, called it the "Mohammadan Theory of Evolution"!

But the evolution theory provide no answers to the question of the creation..

It doesn't. That's correct. I'd also make the point that some (and I am not directing this at you, since I have no idea about your understandings in this area) seem to think the theories of evolution have stood frozen since the time of Darwin.

With evolution, and without evolution an ultimate explanation of this intelligent existence is needed..!

I would think the need for any answer inhibits the ability to find a correct answer.

We see that the child evolve in the womb of his mother in 9 months...But who created him/her?!!

I always like the emerald cockroach wasp as an example, rather than a human baby. Same answer, I'm sure.
I assume you're going with the 'God created him/her' answer, rather than 'When a mummy wasp and a daddy wasp really love each other...'

Right?

 

[leibowde84]

We see that the child evolve in the womb of his mother in 9 months...But who created him/her?!!

No, children don't "evolve" in the womb. A fetus "develops" in the womb. Evolution has nothing to do with the development of an embryo into a baby. That is development. Evolution deals with the common ancestry of all living things on earth. And it has been confirmed thousands of times since its inception. No evidence ever discovered has contradicted the theory.

 

[LuisDantas]

John William Draper, a contemporary of Darwin, called it the "Mohammadan Theory of Evolution..!!!

Before beginning my post I want to say that I used to engage in lots of debates with the atheists. Indeed I used to read the atheists writings in order to reply to them…reading the atheists writings made me more firm in my belief in God!

However, after all of these years I came into a realization that people don't disbelieve in God because of lack of evidences. So I almost stopped debating atheists..

It is very difficult for the average Muslim to debate with atheists, mainly because Islaam is so unhelpful in teaching how to deal with us.

I must say however, that the society may also influence the people choice to became atheists..

Atheism isn't always, or even necessarily often, a choice. Many of us have the choice to lie about our atheism, but not to become or stop being atheists.

Anyhow Here is my post for today..Enjoy!

The question of how old atheism is, is attached to the question of how old the Human civilization is..

Atheism began when people developed self-awareness. It differentiated from theism later, when theism was created.

Atheists have always struggled with the question of the origin of the living creatures..

Have we? It is not a very significant question for most people who are not Abrahamists. It is not a matter with much practical use, after all.

In any case, current research seems to be on the verge of answering it anyway.

So when Darwin came with his theory of Evolution, they hastily gripped it and thought that finally they found the answer..

Uh, no. The ToE does not really say anything about the origin of living beings as such. Only about their differentiation into various species.

However, many people didn't not know that evolution theory in general, is centuries old..

That may well be. It is, after all, a finding based on the observation of nature. Its eventual discovery was unavoidable and could easily have happened significantly earlier than generally assumed.

However, your confusion about the basic ideas here in this post makes me skeptical about your having learned of an earlier proposition of the ToE.

There is also the notable fact that present Muslim societies are perhaps the most stubborn group in the denial of the ToE. That brings the question of how come the supposedly Muslim discovery has been so utterly lost.

Reading the 18-page PDF that you provided only confirms my impression. Whoever wrote it has very little knowledge of biology and less of the ToE. So little, in fact, that he seems not to realize that he is mistaken about the very basics, all the way down to the nature of science.

And as you will see below, Some ancient Muslims have talked about it and "John William Draper, a contemporary of Darwin, called it the "Mohammadan Theory of Evolution"!

But the evolution theory provide no answers to the question of the creation..

The creation of life? Indeed, it does not. That is outside its scope. Darwin apparently considered abiogenesis, but the idea was unavoidably speculative (technically it still is) and not very well supported until the discovery of the DNA molecule.

With evolution, and without evolution an ultimate explanation of this intelligent existence is needed..!

Is it? Why? How do you know that it is even attainable, or meaningful?

We see that the child evolve in the womb of his mother in 9 months...But who created him/her?!!

"Creation" is a word that Muslims use in very odd, difficult ways, I have learned. Children are created by biological conception, among Kuffar as among Muslims. I don't think there is any significant difference there.

As for the embryo's development... it may be in part a matter of translation, but you are not using "evolve" here in an accurate biological sense. Evolution happens gradually along generations, not during a single lifetime and certainly not before birth.

You may or may not be thinking of the Recapitulation Theory.

Recapitulation theory - Wikipedia

 

[The Holy Bottom Burp]

John William Draper, a contemporary of Darwin, called it the "Mohammadan Theory of Evolution..!!!

Before beginning my post I want to say that I used to engage in lots of debates with the atheists. Indeed I used to read the atheists writings in order to reply to them…reading the atheists writings made me more firm in my belief in God!

However, after all of these years I came into a realization that people don't disbelieve in God because of lack of evidences. So I almost stopped debating atheists..

I must say however, that the society may also influence the people choice to became atheists..

Anyhow Here is my post for today..Enjoy!

The question of how old atheism is, is attached to the question of how old the Human civilization is..

Atheists have always struggled with the question of the origin of the living creatures..

So when Darwin came with his theory of Evolution, they hastily gripped it and thought that finally they found the answer..

However, many people didn't not know that evolution theory in general, is centuries old..

And as you will see below, Some ancient Muslims have talked about it and "John William Draper, a contemporary of Darwin, called it the "Mohammadan Theory of Evolution"!

But the evolution theory provide no answers to the question of the creation..

With evolution, and without evolution an ultimate explanation of this intelligent existence is needed..!

We see that the child evolve in the womb of his mother in 9 months...But who created him/her?!!

Well done dude, your OP has created an impressively stinging atheist response! Not sure what your point is though. It is true that Islamic countries were once way ahead of Christian countries in terms of science, in terms of civilisation, so what? Times have changed.
Many notable scientific discoveries were made by Christians or Deists, so what? It doesn't add any credibility to their religious beliefs. The further back in time you go, the more likely it is that any scientist you mention subscribed to a religion, proclaiming your atheism could get you killed back then, a bit like it can still get you killed if you live in, just for example, an Islamic country like Pakistan or Bangladesh today, correct?
Finally, atheism is not contingent on the fact of evolution, if you were to prove evolution utterly false today would it destroy atheism? No, we'd then be looking for another explanation for the development and diversity of species, not throwing up our hands and asking Allah, Jesus, Vishnu (insert god of your choice here) for forgiveness. You can be an atheist and deny evolution, ever heard of Raëlism?
Raëlism - Wikipedia You can deny evolution, just stick any old unfounded evidence free nonsense in its place, and still be an atheist! How about that?

 

[Kilgore Trout]

We see that the child evolve in the womb of his mother in 9 months...But who created him/her?!!

I realize that Islam is rather backward, but I didn't realize just how little they understand about the basic reproductive process.

 

[LuisDantas]

I realize that Islam is rather backward, but I didn't realize just how little they understand about the basic reproductive process.

I think (or at least hope) that what he truly means is that the existence of life and the development of embryos are to be perceived as literal miracles, not that he is unaware of basic human biology.

 

[Shia Islam]

I rather choose not to reply to replies that just reveal much about their writers as humans than their knowledge..

It's cleat that I did not meant to give a class in biology!

My point was so clear..

Many atheists deal with the theory of evolution and its attached presumptions and thoughts as if they are part of their "belief system", and i know many will object to using the phrase "belief system"!

In more simpler words, many atheists assume that these mentioned theories provide answers to the BIG questions related to their debates with the believers, while these theories provide no answers..

So no need to diverge the topic..

 

[Looncall]

John William Draper, a contemporary of Darwin, called it the "Mohammadan Theory of Evolution..!!!

Before beginning my post I want to say that I used to engage in lots of debates with the atheists. Indeed I used to read the atheists writings in order to reply to them…reading the atheists writings made me more firm in my belief in God!

However, after all of these years I came into a realization that people don't disbelieve in God because of lack of evidences. So I almost stopped debating atheists..

I must say however, that the society may also influence the people choice to became atheists..

Anyhow Here is my post for today..Enjoy!

The question of how old atheism is, is attached to the question of how old the Human civilization is..

Atheists have always struggled with the question of the origin of the living creatures..

So when Darwin came with his theory of Evolution, they hastily gripped it and thought that finally they found the answer..

However, many people didn't not know that evolution theory in general, is centuries old..

And as you will see below, Some ancient Muslims have talked about it and "John William Draper, a contemporary of Darwin, called it the "Mohammadan Theory of Evolution"!

But the evolution theory provide no answers to the question of the creation..

With evolution, and without evolution an ultimate explanation of this intelligent existence is needed..!

We see that the child evolve in the womb of his mother in 9 months...But who created him/her?!!



http://pu.edu.pk/images/journal/uoc/PDF-FILES/(11) Dr. Sultan Shah_86_2.pdf

John William Draper, a contemporary of Darwin, called it the "Mohammadan Theory of Evolution..!!!

Before beginning my post I want to say that I used to engage in lots of debates with the atheists. Indeed I used to read the atheists writings in order to reply to them…reading the atheists writings made me more firm in my belief in God!

However, after all of these years I came into a realization that people don't disbelieve in God because of lack of evidences. So I almost stopped debating atheists..

I must say however, that the society may also influence the people choice to became atheists..

Anyhow Here is my post for today..Enjoy!

The question of how old atheism is, is attached to the question of how old the Human civilization is..

Atheists have always struggled with the question of the origin of the living creatures..

So when Darwin came with his theory of Evolution, they hastily gripped it and thought that finally they found the answer..

However, many people didn't not know that evolution theory in general, is centuries old..

And as you will see below, Some ancient Muslims have talked about it and "John William Draper, a contemporary of Darwin, called it the "Mohammadan Theory of Evolution"!

But the evolution theory provide no answers to the question of the creation..

With evolution, and without evolution an ultimate explanation of this intelligent existence is needed..!

We see that the child evolve in the womb of his mother in 9 months...But who created him/her?!!



http://pu.edu.pk/images/journal/uoc/PDF-FILES/(11) Dr. Sultan Shah_86_2.pdf

Islam later opted fir ignorance and superstition instead of science. Modern muslims cannot take credit for islam's golden age.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

I rather choose not to reply to replies that just reveal much about their writers as humans than their knowledge..

It's cleat that I did not meant to give a class in biology!

My point was so clear..

Many atheists deal with the theory of evolution and its attached presumptions and thoughts as if they are part of their "belief system", and i know many will object to using the phrase "belief system"!

In more simpler words, many atheists assume that these mentioned theories provide answers to the BIG questions related to their debates with the believers, while these theories provide no answers..

So no need to diverge the topic..

Your point is clearly wrong.

 

[Valjean]

Many atheists deal with the theory of evolution and its attached presumptions and thoughts as if they are part of their "belief system", and i know many will object to using the phrase "belief system"!

In more simpler words, many atheists assume that these mentioned theories provide answers to the BIG questions related to their debates with the believers, while these theories provide no answers..

So no need to diverge the topic..

Atheists have many different belief systems, just as religious people do, but I don't think many of them are founded on atheism, per se. Rather, I suspect rationality has a greater predictive value. Ie: those whose beliefs and world-views are based on demonstrable facts and critical analysis tend to be dubious of unsupported or mythology-based beliefs -- including the existence of Gods, unicorns and little green men.

Our belief in the theory of evolution has nothing to do with atheism. Our belief in the ToE has to do with our rationality, which, sometimes, also underlies our atheism, politics, and social interactions.
That is, the two have a common ancestor, but are not directly related.
(Where have I heard this before?)

 

[Shia Islam]

dubious of unsupported or mythology-based beliefs -- including the existence of Gods, unicorns and little green men.

With respect,

Putting What you call "Gods" with the "unicorns" in one Basket, just does not reflect an unbiased approach for searching the truth..

I must say that my reply here is also applied to most of the other posts here that i chose not to reply to.

 

[HonestJoe]

Many atheists deal with the theory of evolution and its attached presumptions and thoughts as if they are part of their "belief system", and i know many will object to using the phrase "belief system"!

Most atheists do nothing of the sort. Most atheists will never visit places like this, never really think about atheism or gods, never think about how evolutionary theory interacts with atheism and never debate with believers. Most atheists simply happen to not believe in any gods and get on with their lives. You're talking about a subset of a subset.

I am here but for me (like many others) evolutionary theory has absently nothing to do with my atheism. I’ve never believed in any gods but I only learned about evolution later in my life and I've never considered it a reason not to believe in the existence of gods in general.

In more simpler words, many atheists assume that these mentioned theories provide answers to the BIG questions related to their debates with the believers, while these theories provide no answers..

Evolutionary theory offers some answers to various questions in this field and whether you’re atheist or theist doesn’t change those answers or the relevance of them. As your OP link demonstrated, lots of people have considered ideas in this area, sometimes in the context of a particular religious belief and sometimes entirely independent of any.

 

[LuisDantas]

My point was so clear..

I am so sorry, but I have to agree. It was. You even explain it right there:

Many atheists deal with the theory of evolution and its attached presumptions and thoughts as if they are part of their "belief system", and i know many will object to using the phrase "belief system"!

In more simpler words, many atheists assume that these mentioned theories provide answers to the BIG questions related to their debates with the believers, while these theories provide no answers..

So no need to diverge the topic..

What you mean, clearly, is that you are proud in your ignorance of both science and atheism and take refuge in arrogance disguised as humility.

I have met that far too often. It has not become any more respectable since the first time.

 

[Shia Islam]

Most atheists do nothing of the sort. Most atheists will never visit places like this, never really think about atheism or gods, never think about how evolutionary theory interacts with atheism and never debate with believers. Most atheists simply happen to not believe in any gods and get on with their lives. You're talking about a subset of a subset.

I am here but for me (like many others) evolutionary theory has absently nothing to do with my atheism. I’ve never believed in any gods but I only learned about evolution later in my life and I've never considered it a reason not to believe in the existence of gods in general.

Evolutionary theory offers some answers to various questions in this field and whether you’re atheist or theist doesn’t change those answers or the relevance of them. As your OP link demonstrated, lots of people have considered ideas in this area, sometimes in the context of a particular religious belief and sometimes entirely independent of any.

Although we hold far different views..
Unlike many other respondents here, You responded directly to my post without trying to diverge the subject and hide behind the scientific details that I clearly did not went into..

 

[LuisDantas]

(...)
Unlike many other respondents here, You responded directly to my post without trying to diverge the subject and hide behind the scientific details that I clearly did not went into..

That is a very bold claim to make, given the circunstances.