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John 5:37 contradiction, or not...

Discussion in 'Same Faith Debates' started by Disciple of Jesus, Feb 10, 2019.

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  1. Disciple of Jesus

    Disciple of Jesus Veteran Member

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    John 5:37

    Specifically any verse that proposes a never encountered G-d, directly contradicts Scripture, is even abstractly, or by any interpretation false, does this verse actually say this?
     
    #1 Disciple of Jesus, Feb 10, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2019
  2. Disciple of Jesus

    Disciple of Jesus Veteran Member

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    Considering the audience, Jesus was talking to specific people. There isn't an indication that these people actually followed the religion that Jesus teaches, I call this 'the religion of Jesus'. In this sense, really, the only thing that makes sense here, this statement makes sense.

    There is an absolute contradiction if read as a general statement, regarding G-d.
     
  3. InChrist

    InChrist Free4ever

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    What do you believe to be the contradiction?
     
  4. Disciple of Jesus

    Disciple of Jesus Veteran Member

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    Biblically? G-d is noted with form, even described, in Scripture. Would not 'that Deity', be the Abba?


    As a 'general statement' about G-d, this sequence of verses would literally contradict itself.
     
    #4 Disciple of Jesus, Feb 10, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2019
  5. InChrist

    InChrist Free4ever

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    John 5:37 says ... And the Father Himself, who sent Me, has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time, nor seen His form.

    This verse is saying that those Jesus was speaking to had neither heard the voice of the Father, nor seen the Father or His form at anytime.

    Do you agree with that, it is the Father no one had seen or heard?
     
  6. Disciple of Jesus

    Disciple of Jesus Veteran Member

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    Not as a 'general statement', no. If this is specifically referring to those who Jesus is talking to, then, sure, it could be a non-contradictory statement.
     
  7. InChrist

    InChrist Free4ever

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    I am of the opinion that all the interactions in the OT between God and the people of Israel were occurring with the Son of God, therefore Jesus's words would be no contradiction because no one had actually seen or heard the Father God, but the Son, Himself.
     
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  8. Disciple of Jesus

    Disciple of Jesus Veteran Member

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    That's fine, that could correlate to Scripture. Now, do you believe that the Abba, literally cannot be perceived, necessarily, or, always formless?
     
  9. InChrist

    InChrist Free4ever

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    Yes, I'd say that I believe Abba Father is Spirit and cannot be seen at least by physical human eyes. The eternal realm may be different I imagine.
     
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