amorphous_constellation
Well-Known Member
I watched this last night, there are some pretty good videos on history and religion from yale on youtube, scroll to 47:28.
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John 5:37, and Exodus 3:4-14, how do you reconcile these in your belief?
- Thread starter Desert Snake
- Start date
I watched this last night, there are some pretty good videos on history and religion from yale on youtube, scroll to 47:28.
amorphous_constellation
Well-Known Member
Not unless you believe in Arian Christianity which survived into the 6th century with I think visigothic western roman emperors.. Sort of like Plato's God with Jesus.
syo
Well-Known Member
the holy trinity I mean is that of the creed. three persons with their certain tasks. father is the mysterious one. son is the obvious one. the holy spirit is the life giver sent to us.
Desert Snake
Veteran Member
It's the same way that the Scripture can say no one can see God and live yet at the same time there are those who report meeting God and live.
To directly see or hear God, as only those in Heaven can, would be impossible for man to bear in this form without being struck dead. Presumably because of the sin that resides within them.
and said to Moses, "Speak to us yourself and we will listen. But do not have God speak to us or we will die."
Exodus 20:19
Yet, people have encounters with Jesus, or "the Angel of the Lord", and they are actually still seeing and hearing from God Himself - but not in the way one would see the Father in Heaven, which is impossible for sinful man to bear.
The idea that one cannot see or hear God and live is a recognition of the fact that to be in His presence with sin in themselves is to invite immediate judgement and death, as the high priest that would be struck dead in the holy and holies if they had not properly cleansed themselves to approach the presence of God.
The mistake would be in assuming that God has no way of meeting with and speaking with people in ways they can handle to varying degrees, short of fully unveiling Himself to them without limit and causing immediate judgement to fall upon them. But, in a very real sense, to see Jesus is to still see God.
Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and you still do not know me, Philip? Whoever has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?
John 14:19
Where there is a greater degree of God's manifestation there is a greater degree of responsibility on the part of the individual for their sin, and thus the quicker and more harshly judgement comes for it. This is why Ananias and Sapphira were struck dead in the presence of the apostles for trying to lie to the Holy Spirit for personal financial gain.
I've heard an account of an individual who was praying for God's glory and presence to come down to a much greater degree, and God spoke to him and told him basically, "If I did that half the people in here would die". They weren't in a position to be able to stand in that kind of presence of God and survive because of the sin in their life.
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Desert Snake
Veteran Member
Desert Snake
Veteran Member
Desert Snake
Veteran Member
Im not sure what that means. Arians believed, or seems so, jesus isn't in a trinity, yet is a separate deity. Dont know if they were trinitarians, or what manner of trinitarianism, they followed.
amorphous_constellation
Well-Known Member
That god is ultimately supposed to remain separate from any other force, that there is a hierarchy and god would be the source at the top instead of a consubstantial factor. This I think keeps closer to the tradition of the Jews and pagans and philosophers of preceding history, but the concept is probably alien to many modern christians. The trinity wasn't always an apparent concept in christianity, the idea didn't get a stamp on it till the nicene creed.
Desert Snake
Veteran Member
I disagree, however I'm not going to associate my religious beliefs, with the argument that I would present, to show that. So, what I'll say is that, that idea might vary, most religions we read about are polytheistic, and, the 'creed' is a codified explanation of the deific aspects in the Bible. So, they didn't invent the trinity.
Most christians were modalists with slight variations, before it became a heresy in the established church.
The differentiation of the modalism, modalistic trinity, so forth, and the codified trinity concept are itself, a bit sketchy, because the church did correlate all aspects to g-d, or whoever they thought g-d was.