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John 5:37, and Exodus 3:4-14, how do you reconcile these in your belief?

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
John 5:37
'Never heard G-ds voice'
Presumably Jesus is talking to Jews, here, who sit on Moses's seat, read the Torah, so forth,

And

Exodus 3:4-14
God speaking to Moses, from the burning bush.


How do yoi reconcile these verses, in your belief?

Agape! Shalom...
 

Ellen Brown

Well-Known Member
John 5:37
'Never heard G-ds voice'
Presumably Jesus is talking to Jews, here, who sit on Moses's seat, read the Torah, so forth,

And

Exodus 3:4-14
God speaking to Moses, from the burning bush.


How do yoi reconcile these verses, in your belief?

Agape! Shalom...

That is your conflict to resolve.
 

Brickjectivity

wind and rain touch not this brain
Staff member
Premium Member
John 5:37
'Never heard G-ds voice'
Presumably Jesus is talking to Jews, here, who sit on Moses's seat, read the Torah, so forth,
I think its better to note that he is speaking to the (corrupted) politicians of his day, and he is protesting. This is Jesus speaking against the discipleship methods of his day to the politicians, but he's talking about more than that, too. Their basis of authority is what he is talking about, and he's saying there's no basis for it. Jesus is portrayed here alluding to Jeremiah 31:33 in a mystical way that its time for the law to be in the heart instead of taught by one master to another. Either he is saying that the laws are in the heart now, or he's saying that eventually they will be. Whichever the case he's saying the leadership are not needed. Its possible, too, that Jesus is claiming that the time of renewal has come or some complex related event.

One of the things Jesus says in John 3 is that the spirit goes wherever it goes -- meaning it doesn't have to pass from mouth to ear. Hence there is no need for wise elders. Hence there is no need for these corrupt politicians, and he is also telling them that they are mean and heartless and that their faults are the reason they won't accept his words.

Some people, probably most, saw things differently than Jesus. They didn't think that it was time for 'Holy to the LORD' to be inscribed on the bells of the horses and cooking pots. (Zech 14:20) Jesus on the other hand was prophesying "The kingdom is here" meaning literally they were already in it and just needed to accept it. The Romans all around them, these were the 'Bells' and the 'Cooking pots' in the prophecy. People generally didn't see things that way although many probably wanted to, and Jesus clearly had a following. What most saw and what those corrupt politicians saw was a crumbling world, a ruin. Jesus on the other hand seemed to think it was time to spread out and to view the situation very differently.


Exodus 3 does not apply directly. He's really alluding to "No, the word is very near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart so you may obey it." (Deu 30:14 NIV) He's saying that for some reason the word is not near them, not in their mouth and heart (Note he's saying this to some politicians of his day not to all Jews). Jesus words may sound very harsh but in the context of his ministry they are just recapping his view of the situation. What he is saying to these men is that they are deeply in error, and he is warning them prophet-style that they do not love justice and mercy. He's also saying that they are not irreplaceable. Basically he is saying "You should be listening to me, but you're too stubborn and mean and therefore blind."
 

InChrist

Free4ever
John 5:37
'Never heard G-ds voice'
Presumably Jesus is talking to Jews, here, who sit on Moses's seat, read the Torah, so forth,

And

Exodus 3:4-14
God speaking to Moses, from the burning bush.


How do yoi reconcile these verses, in your belief?

Agape! Shalom...
What is your belief?
 

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
What is your belief?
It must be 'context specific', in other words because Adonai is the Judaic name of the Lord, and this follows for example, standard way to refer to God, then Jesus is saying, 'you don't have the correct context', for His Messiahship.

Since Jesus quotes,

'Hear O Israel the Lord God is one'

This clearly shows a general concept of who God is.

We know who the main GOD is, on THE THRONE, surrounded by angels, the main GOD who Jesus as presumably Adonai, Jesus would be referring to.
 
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Desert Snake

Veteran Member
I think its better to note that he is speaking to the (corrupted) politicians of his day, and he is protesting. This is Jesus speaking against the discipleship methods of his day to the politicians, but he's talking about more than that, too. Their basis of authority is what he is talking about, and he's saying there's no basis for it. Jesus is portrayed here alluding to Jeremiah 31:33 in a mystical way that its time for the law to be in the heart instead of taught by one master to another. Either he is saying that the laws are in the heart now, or he's saying that eventually they will be. Whichever the case he's saying the leadership are not needed. Its possible, too, that Jesus is claiming that the time of renewal has come or some complex related event.

One of the things Jesus says in John 3 is that the spirit goes wherever it goes -- meaning it doesn't have to pass from mouth to ear. Hence there is no need for wise elders. Hence there is no need for these corrupt politicians, and he is also telling them that they are mean and heartless and that their faults are the reason they won't accept his words.

Some people, probably most, saw things differently than Jesus. They didn't think that it was time for 'Holy to the LORD' to be inscribed on the bells of the horses and cooking pots. (Zech 14:20) Jesus on the other hand was prophesying "The kingdom is here" meaning literally they were already in it and just needed to accept it. The Romans all around them, these were the 'Bells' and the 'Cooking pots' in the prophecy. People generally didn't see things that way although many probably wanted to, and Jesus clearly had a following. What most saw and what those corrupt politicians saw was a crumbling world, a ruin. Jesus on the other hand seemed to think it was time to spread out and to view the situation very differently.


Exodus 3 does not apply directly. He's really alluding to "No, the word is very near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart so you may obey it." (Deu 30:14 NIV) He's saying that for some reason the word is not near them, not in their mouth and heart (Note he's saying this to some politicians of his day not to all Jews). Jesus words may sound very harsh but in the context of his ministry they are just recapping his view of the situation. What he is saying to these men is that they are deeply in error, and he is warning them prophet-style that they do not love justice and mercy. He's also saying that they are not irreplaceable. Basically he is saying "You should be listening to me, but you're too stubborn and mean and therefore blind."
That's pretty much at least generally how I interpret that. Context specific, not a 'general statement'.
 

syo

Well-Known Member
John 5:37
'Never heard G-ds voice'
Presumably Jesus is talking to Jews, here, who sit on Moses's seat, read the Torah, so forth,

And

Exodus 3:4-14
God speaking to Moses, from the burning bush.


How do yoi reconcile these verses, in your belief?

Agape! Shalom...
Isn't the first from the New Testament and the second from the Old testament? are these two books consistent?
 

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
Isn't the first from the New Testament and the second from the Old testament? are these two books consistent?
I believe they are, we just need the context. Reading some of these verses, because of how the churches so forth, taught christianity, one might need to figure out the context.
• we know that Jesus said, 'Hear O Israel, the Lord is one'.

His followers knew the religious beliefs, Jesus was always referring to the Old Testament.

So, we know some context, of course, just from that.
 
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syo

Well-Known Member
John 5:37
'Never heard G-ds voice'
Presumably Jesus is talking to Jews, here, who sit on Moses's seat, read the Torah, so forth,

And

Exodus 3:4-14
God speaking to Moses, from the burning bush.


How do yoi reconcile these verses, in your belief?

Agape! Shalom...
Jesus is the Son. the Son is the Word of God. The Father speaks to Moses and to all people through the Son. The Father NEVER revealed his TRUE voice. He speaks to people through the Son. I am a trinity believer, by the way. :)

A trinitarian God spoke to Moses and to other people.
 

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
Jesus is the Son. the Son is the Word of God. The Father speaks to Moses and to all people through the Son. The Father NEVER revealed his TRUE voice. He speaks to people through the Son. I am a trinity believer, by the way. :)

A trinitarian God spoke to Moses and to other people.
The verse is more direct than that. Jesus says they didn't know the 'pater'. So, it is more than just that.
 

syo

Well-Known Member
The verse is more direct than that. Jesus says they didn't know the 'pater'. So, it is more than just that.
Jesus is correct. We don't know the Father. His true form is a mystery to us. The only bridge between Father and us is the Son. the Son (Jesus) is the revealed God. The source (Father) is a mystery God.
 

InChrist

Free4ever
It must be 'context specific', in other words because Adonai is the Judaic name of the Lord, and this follows for example, standard way to refer to God, then Jesus is saying, 'you don't have the correct context', for His Messiahship.

Since Jesus quotes,

'Hear O Israel the Lord God is one'

This clearly shows a general concept of who God is.

We know who the main GOD is, on THE THRONE, surrounded by angels, the main GOD who Jesus as presumably Adonai, Jesus would be referring to.
What do you mean "the main God"?
 

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
What do you mean "the main God"?
I'm describing the High G-d, aspect of God. The other part of a trinity, in other words.

I don't use the same words as you, [not from that church background, so, I'm describing who you might call the Heavenly aspect of God, on the Throne.

Also I'm not sure what the names mean to you, specifically, what your concept of god is as it relates to the words.
 

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
Jesus is correct. We don't know the Father. His true form is a mystery to us. The only bridge between Father and us is the Son. the Son (Jesus) is the revealed God. The source (Father) is a mystery God.
Great however I don't have a 'mystery g-d', so you're saying it's a different g-d.
 

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
The High God, [Heavenly God, and , incarnated Jesus, the Lord.

Wheres the mystery

'Mystery ' is subjective, and varies by ones beliefs, anyway.
 
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