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John 3:16

Discussion in 'Biblical Debates' started by Buttons*, Jan 8, 2006.

  1. sushannah

    sushannah Member

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    Proxy baptism - now that an interesting concept. Thirty some odd years ago, my grandmother, who was Jewish her entire life, died. Some misguided individual had a catholic priest make her a catholic after she was dead. How ridiculous does it get I ask you? proxy baptism, don't make me laugh!
     
  2. angellous_evangellous

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    First of all, Christians are commanded to preach the Gospel.

    At the same time, we believe that Christianity is a constructive religion. In other words, although God can save whom he choses through Christ (Romans 9), Christianity still gives deep meaning to the lives of people. Confessing Christ and participating in Christianity is a sign of salvation and not a garauntee. God saves who He wants to through Jesus Christ, whether or not someone believes.
     
  3. Bangbang

    Bangbang Active Member

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    Then would it be better to have not heard the Gospel. Then we would not be required to preach it but still be saved by Jesus sacrifice? Do humans need to believe in Christ to have meaning in their lives?
     
  4. angellous_evangellous

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    I don't see how you came to this conclusion from what I wrote.

    OK, I am a Christian. From the Christian POV, there is no salvation outside of the sacrifice of Christ. God's work in Christ is the atonement for the sins of the world. Christianity is the group that confesses that Jesus is Lord, and that we should worship this God. I think that if this God exists, it is constructive to worship Him and obey Him and preach.

    Part of the message of salvation is that no one can do anything to save themselves. God did it all. God sent his Son, God gives faith, God saves those whom God chooses. If Christian doctrine is true, then this salvation is done through the sacrifice of Christ - both for the believer and the non-believer. Confession and obedience are a gift to those who confess Christ.

    Absolutely not!! Many religions give spiritual meaning and enrichment to the lives of millions and millions of people. However, if the God of the Bible created everything and sent his Son, the best thing for all of us to do is recognize His authority.
     
  5. sojourner

    sojourner Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006

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    Thank you! It really is just that simple, folks!
     
  6. Abram

    Abram Abraham

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    Lets say you ask a one person how to get to the other side of your country, they might say "by plane"

    You ask another person the same question, they say "by car"

    You ask another person the same question, they say "by train"
    In fact you could walk, by horse, boat, list goes on and on.

    None of these are wrong ways to get there, you could even try a few of them. But regardless of how you get there it's the fact that your heading there.

    Baptism to me is just another way to get closer to God now. We speaking of a God that will judge with perfect judgement and love, he wants us with him. But if you don't want to go he's not going to drag you kicking and screaming. He's looking for reason to accept us, not reason to keep us out.

    Now if anyone says your not going to heaven for any reason, this is a stupid reason. How can a single person speak on account for God and how he will judge. God loves us and would do anything for us, even give his only son.
     
  7. Aqualung

    Aqualung Tasty

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    What if somebody in authority, the guy who is making the rules, specifically says "you have to go by train"? Doesn't that then make plane, car, boat, foot, horse, etc. wrong?
     
  8. Dentonz

    Dentonz Member

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    I don't believe that the act of baptism means anything unless the person being baptized has, through faith, accepted Jesus as their Lord. You are accountable for your own relationship with God. I don't believe there is anything Biblical that can support a young child without understanding or a mentally handicapped person being damned.

    The age of accountability would be when you decide for yourself either to accept Christ or not.
     
  9. Abram

    Abram Abraham

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    If they say that the only way you can come into this state is by foot, then yes. But if they were a loving country that saw you trying all these different ways, spending the time and energy I think they would let you in.
     
  10. sojourner

    sojourner Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006

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    I don't think a loving God, who desires unity with us, makes those kinds of petty, picayune rules. God's not about "who's in and who's out." God's about expansive, extravagant love. In God's playground, everybody gets to play.:bounce
     
  11. Yasin

    Yasin Member

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    Do you accept the Bible being the word of God?

    Respectively, Yasin:bounce
     
  12. Mark1615

    Mark1615 Member

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    YOU DON'T HAVE TO BE BAPTIZED TO BE SAVED!!!! That would be a work, which Jesus explicitly refuted. Baptism is a proclamation of faith. It is not necessary, but encouraged.

    A child is accountable when he/she knows the difference between right and wrong - whatever age that is. This includes mentally handicapped people.
     
  13. Buttons*

    Buttons* Glass half Panda'd

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    Could you write out the verses for me that it says that please?

    So there is a cut off point?
     
  14. Buttons*

    Buttons* Glass half Panda'd

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    I'm sure your beliefs sound just as silly to someone who doesn't believe them... that doesn't make you right or them wrong. Please be a little more considerate.
     
  15. Buttons*

    Buttons* Glass half Panda'd

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    Yes, but what about someone who will never be aware?
    What about those who will never hear God's word?
     
  16. Aqualung

    Aqualung Tasty

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    How can you say that Jesus explicity refuted "a work" when he explicity stated "Unless you are born of the water and of the spirit, you cannot enter into the kingdom of heaven"?

    Or what about when Jesus himself had to be baptised to fulfill all righteousness? Are we better than christ that we don't need to be baptised? Should we not try to emulate christ?

    Or what about "he that believeth and is baptised will be saved"?

    You'd better start coughing up some quotes about where Jesus explicity stated that you don't need baptism.
     
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  17. Buttons*

    Buttons* Glass half Panda'd

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    haha, obviously he does! :p
     
  18. Buttercup

    Buttercup Veteran Member

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    Could you show me where that exact statement is in the NT? I sure don't remember the 'water' part.
     
  19. Aqualung

    Aqualung Tasty

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  20. Buttercup

    Buttercup Veteran Member

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    What version of the bible is that?
     
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