John 3:16

[sushannah]

Well, I don't know if you know about the LDS thoughts on this, but any child under the age of 8 is automatically saved, no matter what.

After that if someone, anyone, even a child 8 and over has died, we do proxy baptisms so the child has a chance, so in the LDS faith, everyone has a chance, it's just up to them when they are dead if they accept it or not.

Proxy baptism - now that an interesting concept. Thirty some odd years ago, my grandmother, who was Jewish her entire life, died. Some misguided individual had a catholic priest make her a catholic after she was dead. How ridiculous does it get I ask you? proxy baptism, don't make me laugh!

 

[angellous_evangellous]

So whats the point of Missionaries risking their lives preaching if the reward of everlasting life is available to every one. The scriptures say you must go through Jesus by believing in him to recieve the reward.

First of all, Christians are commanded to preach the Gospel.

At the same time, we believe that Christianity is a constructive religion. In other words, although God can save whom he choses through Christ (Romans 9), Christianity still gives deep meaning to the lives of people. Confessing Christ and participating in Christianity is a sign of salvation and not a garauntee. God saves who He wants to through Jesus Christ, whether or not someone believes.

 

[Bangbang]

First of all, Christians are commanded to preach the Gospel.

At the same time, we believe that Christianity is a constructive religion. In other words, although God can save whom he choses through Christ (Romans 9), Christianity still gives deep meaning to the lives of people. Confessing Christ and participating in Christianity is a sign of salvation and not a garauntee. God saves who He wants to through Jesus Christ, whether or not someone believes.

Then would it be better to have not heard the Gospel. Then we would not be required to preach it but still be saved by Jesus sacrifice? Do humans need to believe in Christ to have meaning in their lives?

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Then would it be better to have not heard the Gospel.

I don't see how you came to this conclusion from what I wrote.

Then we would not be required to preach it but still be saved by Jesus sacrifice?

OK, I am a Christian. From the Christian POV, there is no salvation outside of the sacrifice of Christ. God's work in Christ is the atonement for the sins of the world. Christianity is the group that confesses that Jesus is Lord, and that we should worship this God. I think that if this God exists, it is constructive to worship Him and obey Him and preach.

Part of the message of salvation is that no one can do anything to save themselves. God did it all. God sent his Son, God gives faith, God saves those whom God chooses. If Christian doctrine is true, then this salvation is done through the sacrifice of Christ - both for the believer and the non-believer. Confession and obedience are a gift to those who confess Christ.

Do humans need to believe in Christ to have meaning in their lives?

Absolutely not!! Many religions give spiritual meaning and enrichment to the lives of millions and millions of people. However, if the God of the Bible created everything and sent his Son, the best thing for all of us to do is recognize His authority.

 

[sojourner]

First of all, Christians are commanded to preach the Gospel.

At the same time, we believe that Christianity is a constructive religion. In other words, although God can save whom he choses through Christ (Romans 9), Christianity still gives deep meaning to the lives of people. Confessing Christ and participating in Christianity is a sign of salvation and not a garauntee. God saves who He wants to through Jesus Christ, whether or not someone believes.

Thank you! It really is just that simple, folks!

 

[Abram]

Lets say you ask a one person how to get to the other side of your country, they might say "by plane"

You ask another person the same question, they say "by car"

You ask another person the same question, they say "by train"
In fact you could walk, by horse, boat, list goes on and on.

None of these are wrong ways to get there, you could even try a few of them. But regardless of how you get there it's the fact that your heading there.

Baptism to me is just another way to get closer to God now. We speaking of a God that will judge with perfect judgement and love, he wants us with him. But if you don't want to go he's not going to drag you kicking and screaming. He's looking for reason to accept us, not reason to keep us out.

Now if anyone says your not going to heaven for any reason, this is a stupid reason. How can a single person speak on account for God and how he will judge. God loves us and would do anything for us, even give his only son.

 

[Aqualung]

What if somebody in authority, the guy who is making the rules, specifically says "you have to go by train"? Doesn't that then make plane, car, boat, foot, horse, etc. wrong?

 

[Dentonz]

In another thread "Children of Adulters" Michel brought up a topic about children dying before baptism. Interestingly enough (for me at least) on Friday in my Christian Humanities class we talked about that exact subject! So I thought i'd bring it up on here! yay! (this should probably go into discussion instead of debate, but the mods can decide that *shrugs*)

SO yes, if Christians believe that you have to be baptised in order to go to heaven, and a child dies before they can be baptised (be it miscarriges, abortions, complications in birth, undeveloped vital organs, premature birth... which result in death...) does it go to heaven? Catholics, (correct me if im wrong guys) would say that it goes to Limbo. What do yall think about that? WIll a child, if not baptised before death, go to hell? Why do you think what you think about it?

Another tough question is: When is a child accountable for understanding God and accepting Him? I was baptised as a baby, and the school says that it doesnt count because I, myself, never asked God into my heart. What do you think? When can a child fully understand the concept of God, and choose to accept Him? Is there a cut off age when children are accountable in the eyes of God for salvation?

Also, for those who will never understand the concept of God, such as the mentally challanged, does God grant mercy upon them if they cannot grasp the concept themselves?

I don't believe that the act of baptism means anything unless the person being baptized has, through faith, accepted Jesus as their Lord. You are accountable for your own relationship with God. I don't believe there is anything Biblical that can support a young child without understanding or a mentally handicapped person being damned.

The age of accountability would be when you decide for yourself either to accept Christ or not.

 

[Abram]

What if somebody in authority, the guy who is making the rules, specifically says "you have to go by train"? Doesn't that then make plane, car, boat, foot, horse, etc. wrong?

If they say that the only way you can come into this state is by foot, then yes. But if they were a loving country that saw you trying all these different ways, spending the time and energy I think they would let you in.

 

[sojourner]

What if somebody in authority, the guy who is making the rules, specifically says "you have to go by train"? Doesn't that then make plane, car, boat, foot, horse, etc. wrong?

I don't think a loving God, who desires unity with us, makes those kinds of petty, picayune rules. God's not about "who's in and who's out." God's about expansive, extravagant love. In God's playground, everybody gets to play.:bounce

 

[Yasin]

Too bad more Christians don't accept the Book of Mormon... It would clear everything up.

Do you accept the Bible being the word of God?

Respectively, Yasin:bounce

 

[Mark1615]

In another thread "Children of Adulters" Michel brought up a topic about children dying before baptism. Interestingly enough (for me at least) on Friday in my Christian Humanities class we talked about that exact subject! So I thought i'd bring it up on here! yay! (this should probably go into discussion instead of debate, but the mods can decide that *shrugs*)

SO yes, if Christians believe that you have to be baptised in order to go to heaven, and a child dies before they can be baptised (be it miscarriges, abortions, complications in birth, undeveloped vital organs, premature birth... which result in death...) does it go to heaven? Catholics, (correct me if im wrong guys) would say that it goes to Limbo. What do yall think about that? WIll a child, if not baptised before death, go to hell? Why do you think what you think about it?

Another tough question is: When is a child accountable for understanding God and accepting Him? I was baptised as a baby, and the school says that it doesnt count because I, myself, never asked God into my heart. What do you think? When can a child fully understand the concept of God, and choose to accept Him? Is there a cut off age when children are accountable in the eyes of God for salvation?

Also, for those who will never understand the concept of God, such as the mentally challanged, does God grant mercy upon them if they cannot grasp the concept themselves?

YOU DON'T HAVE TO BE BAPTIZED TO BE SAVED!!!! That would be a work, which Jesus explicitly refuted. Baptism is a proclamation of faith. It is not necessary, but encouraged.

A child is accountable when he/she knows the difference between right and wrong - whatever age that is. This includes mentally handicapped people.

 

[Buttons*]

YOU DON'T HAVE TO BE BAPTIZED TO BE SAVED!!!! That would be a work, which Jesus explicitly refuted. Baptism is a proclamation of faith. It is not necessary, but encouraged.

Could you write out the verses for me that it says that please?

A child is accountable when he/she knows the difference between right and wrong - whatever age that is. This includes mentally handicapped people.

So there is a cut off point?

 

[Buttons*]

Proxy baptism - now that an interesting concept. Thirty some odd years ago, my grandmother, who was Jewish her entire life, died. Some misguided individual had a catholic priest make her a catholic after she was dead. How ridiculous does it get I ask you? proxy baptism, don't make me laugh!

I'm sure your beliefs sound just as silly to someone who doesn't believe them... that doesn't make you right or them wrong. Please be a little more considerate.

 

[Buttons*]

The age of accountability would be when you decide for yourself either to accept Christ or not.

Yes, but what about someone who will never be aware?
What about those who will never hear God's word?

 

[Aqualung]

YOU DON'T HAVE TO BE BAPTIZED TO BE SAVED!!!! That would be a work, which Jesus explicitly refuted. Baptism is a proclamation of faith. It is not necessary, but encouraged.

How can you say that Jesus explicity refuted "a work" when he explicity stated "Unless you are born of the water and of the spirit, you cannot enter into the kingdom of heaven"?

Or what about when Jesus himself had to be baptised to fulfill all righteousness? Are we better than christ that we don't need to be baptised? Should we not try to emulate christ?

Or what about "he that believeth and is baptised will be saved"?

You'd better start coughing up some quotes about where Jesus explicity stated that you don't need baptism.

 

[Buttons*]

Do you accept the Bible being the word of God?

haha, obviously he does!

 

[Buttercup]

How can you say that Jesus explicity refuted "a work" when he explicity stated "Unless you are born of the water and of the spirit, you cannot enter into the kingdom of heaven"?

Could you show me where that exact statement is in the NT? I sure don't remember the 'water' part.

 

[Aqualung]

John 3:5 was the water one.

There are more here

 

[Buttercup]

What version of the bible is that?