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Featured John 14:28

Discussion in 'Scriptural Debates' started by Faithofchristian, Dec 31, 2018.

  1. 74x12

    74x12 Well-Known Member

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    This truth can only be known when God shows someone. In Matthew 11:25-27 we see that no one knows the Father except the Son and only the Son can reveal the Father to anyone. So, whoever doesn't know; it's because Jesus has not shown them yet.
     
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  2. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

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    If I may say,
    "But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned" 1 Corinthians 2:14

    As you have proven it takes spiritual discernment to know how Jesus is God the Father, but yet God the Father is greater than Jesus.
     
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  3. David T

    David T Well-Known Member
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    A simple would be spirit is god, body is not god. But but but.....
    Dangerously confused and profoundly mentally unhealthy to literalize that statement thus the eucharist comes into play thus the whole last supper scene negates the above as being remotely valid and irelevant and clueless. Or are you proposing the writers are mentally ill?, i dont see that. Wierd certainly but not mentally ill.
     
    #23 David T, Dec 31, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2018
  4. David T

    David T Well-Known Member
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    I have experience with the mentally ill. Thats exactly what some of them believe!!! The eucharist negates that fantasy.
     
  5. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
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    the action, Spirit is greater than the form


    same idea as nirguna and saguna.


    thanks @SalixIncendium
     
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  6. InChrist

    InChrist Free4ever

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    I don't find Jesus' statement puzzling considering He was speaking while He was on the earth in human form. According to Phil. 2:7-8. the Son of God ..made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross.

    From His humanity and humbled position Jesus could realistically say that the Father was greater than Himself.
     
  7. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    If Jesus is Not a created being, then I wonder how does one explain that according to John at Revelation 3:14 B; 1:5 that the per-human Jesus was the beginning of the creation by God.
    I find at Psalms 90:2 God had No beginning......
    So, only God was before the beginning. The pre-human heavenly Jesus was Not before the beginning as God was.
    God did Not send Himself to Earth, rather God sent the already existing-in-heaven Jesus to Earth for us.
    Plus, the resurrected ascended-to-heaven Jesus still thinks he has a God over him as per Revelation 3:12.
     
  8. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    I find at Psalms 104:30 that God sends forth His spirit......
    Plus, unlike God and Jesus, God's spirit is a neuter as an "it" at Numbers 11:17,25
     
  9. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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  10. InChrist

    InChrist Free4ever

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    The Greek word in Revelation 3:14 translated "beginning" here is the word "arche." It can mean beginning, origin, source, or even authority. This fits right in with other passages which show that Jesus is the Source and One who began and produced and holds together all creation.
     
  11. InChrist

    InChrist Free4ever

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    None of those verses disprove the deity of Christ. He, as God the Son chose to come to earth in human flesh, laid down His life and as God raise it up again.

    Therefore My Father loves Me, because I lay down My life that I may take it again. No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This command I have received from My Father.” John 10:18
     
  12. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

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    Jesus is God had no beginning, Jesus is the Alpha and Omaga.

    As for Revelation 3:12, God the Father is the God of Jesus as the Son of God.

    Jesus as God is God the Father.
     
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  13. blü 2

    blü 2 Well-Known Member
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    Jesus is not a Trinitarian. He says he's Jesus, envoy and servant of God, having no powers other than those God lends him, and no purposes other than God's. He says that the Father is his god. In other words, he always distinguishes himself from God and he never claims to be God.

    If you check the history of Christianity, you'll find the Trinity doctrine has vague roots in the third century but doesn't find its form until late in the fourth century. In other words, it didn't exist in Jesus' day.
    The churches call the Trinity 'a mystery in the strict sense'. Such a mystery 'cannot be known by reason apart from revelation' and 'when revealed cannot be cogently demonstrated by reason' (their words, not mine). A moment's reflection will tell you that this is a polite way of describing a nonsense.

    For Trinity purposes, there are two realistic models ─ first, that Father, Son and Ghost each constitute ⅓ of God ─ which the doctrine rejects ─ and second that (as the doctrine says) the Father is 100% of God and separately Jesus is 100% of God and separately from both the Ghost is 100% of God, which adds up to 300% = 3 gods. The doctrine rejects that too. Instead it says that 1+1+1=1 ─ which is indeed a nonsense.

    And being a nonsense, it can have the consequences you mention ─ since God is Jesus' father and Jesus is 100% of God, Jesus is his own father and the Father has no special claim to such a title, being 100% of God too, just as the Ghost is 100% of God.

    Likewise a Trinitarian Jesus on the cross cries out, 'Me, me, why have I forsaken me?' And so on.

    As they say in the computer world, or used to, GIGO.
     
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  14. 74x12

    74x12 Well-Known Member

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    I think you meant to quote someone else other than me because I didn't post that.
     
  15. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

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    Wait Jesus Christ is God the Father now? Not God the son anymore? Oh dear. :dizzy:
    I take it you have scripture for this. Could you show me please? [​IMG]
     
  16. 74x12

    74x12 Well-Known Member

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    The Father is just God. Try Isaiah 9:6 for starters.
     
  17. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

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    I don't understand what you mean by, "The Father is just God".
    At Isaiah 9:6, my translation says, "His name will be called..."
    Does yours say the same? What does that mean to you - His name will be called?
    Also, it says, His name will be called... Prince of Peace.
    If this is referring to God, the father, what does that phrase mean to you - His name will be called... Prince of Peace?
     
  18. 74x12

    74x12 Well-Known Member

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    It means what it says. It's not hard to understand.

    Prince is Sar in Hebrew. It means a head person like a commander, chieftain, official or captain. I see no reason why God couldn't be called that. In fact it makes sense.

    As for Jesus; if His name will be called "Everlasting Father" then it's case closed for me. He's the everlasting Father.
     
  19. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

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    You earlier said it means what it says. It's not hard to understand. Yet it doesn't seem straightforward enough for persons to see that the one it is speaking of is given these titles for the purpose of his role outlined in those verses. The verse which says "On the throne of David and on his kingdom, In order to establish it firmly and to sustain it"
    The throne of David was set up, by God. where he places his anointed king. - Psalm 2:6 Saying: “I myself have installed my king On Zion, my holy mountain.”
    So the child that was born to us was appointed as king of God's kingdom. He rules on his own throne. Luke 22:29 I make a covenant with you, just as my Father has made a covenant with me, for a kingdom,

    Do you apply the same response to the Bible texts, that refute the teaching being promoted in this thread?
    Revelation 1:6
    and he made us to be a kingdom, priests to his God and Father - yes, to him be the glory and the might forever. Amen.

    It means what it says. It's not hard to understand, is it.
    Jesus has a God and Father.

    Do you agree? Who is his God? Why is that one his God and Father? Is it not because that one is greater than the son? Is it not because the son is subject to the father - he obeys the father?

    1 Corinthians 15:24-28
    24 Next, the end, when he hands over the Kingdom to his God and Father, when he has brought to nothing all government and all authority and power. 25 For he must rule as king until God has put all enemies under his feet. 26 And the last enemy, death, is to be brought to nothing. 27For God “subjected all things under his feet.” But when he says that ‘all things have been subjected,’ it is evident that this does not include the One who subjected all things to him. 28But when all things will have been subjected to him, then the Son himself will also subject himself to the One who subjected all things to him, that God may be all things to everyone.
     
  20. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
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    The Gospel of John is made up to destroy Yeshua's real teachings by the Sanhedrin, and to send the Gentiles to Hell.

    Once we remove the false Pharisaic doctrine of Paul, and John theologically...

    Yeshua or YHVH's father is El Elyon (The God Most High - Luke 1:32, Luke 6:35).

    Since the Sanhedrin no longer accepted El Elyon as the father of YHVH (Matthew 11:27), they didn't understand Yeshua stating himself as YHVH Elohim, as they thought this means the Lord God; rather than the Archangel who was Lord of Creation, who then became the Lord who Saves (Yehoshua).

    In my opinion. :innocent:
     
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