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Featured John 1:18 ||Jesus adherents only

Discussion in 'Same Faith Debates' started by syncretic, Sep 12, 2017.

  1. syncretic

    syncretic Veteran Member

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    JESUS ADHERENTS ONLY


    What is your interpretation of John 1:18


    Bibles can explain the verse de facto in the verse, some bibles doing so, not a problem.

    Yet for those of us using the deity titles as specificity, in originality, this would clearly denote Jesus as a god, or The God, /monotheists.

    Opinions?

     
  2. syncretic

    syncretic Veteran Member

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    } For christians who already believe that Jesus is God, the verse denotes the Jesus aspect in the godhood.
     
  3. DavidFirth

    DavidFirth Well-Known Member

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    It simply means that no man has ever seen God's face except for Jesus only.
     
  4. PopeADope

    PopeADope Habemus papam

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    You're forgetting that Moses saw his face
     
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  5. Super Universe

    Super Universe Defender of God

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    No one has ever seen God means that no human on earth at that time had ever seen God.

    We are the children of God, so, in a way, we are God as well. We are not the entirety of God and neither is Jesus. We are all just one part, one piece of a giant puzzle.

    If you're looking for a reason to believe that Jesus was God, the Creator of the universe, you might want to ask yourself why that is so important to you.
     
  6. DavidFirth

    DavidFirth Well-Known Member

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    No. Moses did not see His face.

    Exodus 33
    19And the Lord said, “I will cause all my goodness to pass in front of you, and I will proclaim my name, the Lord, in your presence. I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.20But,” he said, “you cannot see my face, for no one may see me and live.”

    21Then the Lord said, “There is a place near me where you may stand on a rock. 22When my glory passes by, I will put you in a cleft in the rock and cover you with my hand until I have passed by. 23Then I will remove my hand and you will see my back; but my face must not be seen.”
     
  7. PopeADope

    PopeADope Habemus papam

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    God sometimes changed his mind with Moses

    Exodus 33:11
    New International Version
    The LORD would speak to Moses face to face, as one speaks to a friend.
     
  8. DavidFirth

    DavidFirth Well-Known Member

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    Yes, but Moses never saw His face. The LORD was in a thick cloud when He spoke with Moses.
     
  9. PopeADope

    PopeADope Habemus papam

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    I'm not going to argue with you

    Genesis 32:30
    So Jacob called the place Peniel, saying, "It is because I saw God face to face, and yet my life was spared."
     
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  10. DavidFirth

    DavidFirth Well-Known Member

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    Jacob wrestled with an angel, he only thought that he saw God's face.
     
  11. pcarl

    pcarl Well-Known Member

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    No one has ever seen God. The only Son, God,* who is at the Father’s side, has revealed him.

    Other translations; the Son, the only one, or the only Son the translation above follows the best and earliest manuscripts, monogenes theos, but takes the first term to mean not just "Only One" but to include a filial relationship with the Father. The Logos is "only Son' and God but not Father/God
     
  12. Rick B

    Rick B Active Member
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    Yes. And as John states earlier in verses 1 and 2 that the Son is divine and was with God, demonstrating His deity and a distinction of Persons in the being that is God.
     
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  13. syncretic

    syncretic Veteran Member

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    John 1:1
    John 1:10

    How are you meaning "distinction"?

    There doesn't seem to be a distinction inferred, merely a aspect difference.

    Different aspect of the same thing, doesn't mean 'distinction', or that word could be interpretive.
     
  14. syncretic

    syncretic Veteran Member

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    Why don't you explain your religion further, that might be interesting. Who is Jesus, in your religion? Etc.
    John 1:10

    Perhaps you should ask yourself why it's so important that He isn't.
    Ever consider the reasons why you embraced your new religion?
    Why was that, mr.universe?

    I mean, really, you really aren't good at presuming things.
     
    #14 syncretic, Sep 13, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2017
  15. Rick B

    Rick B Active Member
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    In John 1:1 the Word (which is identified elsewhere as Christ) is WITH God. So distinguishing persons.
     
  16. syncretic

    syncretic Veteran Member

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    Genesis 1:26
    In Genesis, elohim is usually interpreted as a singular, ie 'God'.
    It is in Judaism, and I interpret that name as singular.
    Yet there is a plurality there.

    Do you interpret elohim as a plural, distinct beings?
     
    #16 syncretic, Sep 13, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2017
  17. Rick B

    Rick B Active Member
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    Depends on the context.
     
  18. syncretic

    syncretic Veteran Member

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    What about that context, Genesis 1:26
     
  19. Clear

    Clear Well-Known Member
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    1) Regarding the early traditions that certain individuals saw the face of God :
    PopeADope wrote in post #4 : “You're forgetting that Moses saw his face"
    DavidFirth responded in post #6 : “No. Moses did not see His face.” And in post #10 “Jacob wrestled with an angel, he only thought that he saw God's face.”

    I have to vote with PopeADope on this specific point פניאל (p’niel) of Genesis 32:30 means “face of God”. It does not say p’nimalak (face of an angel). Also, remember, the early Judeo-Christian texts discuss seeing God face to Face, Enoch, barnabas, Martyrdom of Isaiah (3:9) (“But Isaiah has said, 'I have seen the Lord, and behold I am alive...'), etc.

    2) Regarding the version of John 1:18 the OP is referring to. (i.e. modern version or ancient version of the text)

    Just a historical point to be made :

    The version GN4 (translators greek New Testament) uses for the ancient greek for John 1:18 reads “…the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, he has made him known.”. This earlier version is classified as category B (meaning it is almost certain this is the earliest and most original version for this reading). This reading is found in early Greek versions found in P75, א, 33pc, Cl.pt, Cl.ex, thd, Or,…V,, C, L, pc, sy,.hmg, OR.pt, Did…).

    Clear
    ειειακω
     
    #19 Clear, Sep 13, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2017
  20. Rick B

    Rick B Active Member
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    Considering the pronouns and the suffix I would say that it confirms the plurality of Elohim as defining the plurality of persons within the one being that is God.
     
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