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John 1:1-12

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Fool, Sep 28, 2021.

  1. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
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    so the basic idea in the three verses are:

    1. god doesn't have a beginning/end
    2. the word was with god at the beginning. the word had a beginning
    3. a beginning can only arise as a form and in contrast to something else, or in duality.
    4. all things were made within this being and nothing exists outside of it.


    so then all things dwell within this being and this being dwells in part inside all of the things formed/created.


    so then verse 9 states that it is found in all men

    and makes them sons of God

    as the name avows as mentioned in verse 12; which agrees with exodus 3:14


    what do you think?
     
  2. KenS

    KenS Face to face with my Father
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    I couldn't come to that conclusion:

    "3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made."

    If he had a beginning, then he was created. If he was created, something was made without him and verse 3 would be wrong.
     
  3. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
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    god cannot be absolute, or whole, if there is something besides god. god would be limited by the otherness and the otherness would be in contrast to god. this would also deny scripture such as: jeremiah 23:24

    without him nothing was made. literally everything was created within him. goes with in my father's house there are many mansion. nothing exists apart, or outside of god. if it did then there would be god and otherness. like jesus i am in the father and the father is in me; thus john 14:20.
     
  4. Clear

    Clear Well-Known Member
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    Hi @Fool
    I just wanted to make a small and specific point.

    Fool said :
    "1. god doesn't have a beginning/end
    2. the word was with god at the beginning. the word had a beginning"



    While the word may have had a beginning or not, These verses do not tell us that the word had a beginning, merely that he was "with God in the beginning"



    Clear
    ειτωτζω
     
  5. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
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    unfortunately it was with god in the beginning. it doesn't say it was god. think of it like a thought. a mind doesn't have to have a thought. but once it does that potential was always there. it's like faith, faith without works is just faith. but unlike faith without works this logos, this word said let there be and so it was. so this thought had a beginning and this thought is omega too. no one comes to god except through this understanding. what god has joined together, let no man put asunder. and the two become ONE. this thought came from god, this light, then this light created everything from itself. this light dwells in all things because all things dwell in this light. the problem is whether the created, formed, begotten want to believe and then know the father in themselves because the Father doesn't recognize anything apart from it. there is no otherness for the absolute.


    aum
     
  6. Clear

    Clear Well-Known Member
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    REGARDING JOHN 1:1-14

    Fool said : "1. god doesn't have a beginning/end 2. the word was with god at the beginning. the word had a beginning"

    Clear replied : "While the word may have had a beginning or not, These verses do not tell us that the word had a beginning, merely that he was "with God in the beginning"
    Fool said : "unfortunately it was with god in the beginning. it doesn't say it was god."

    My comment merely pointed out that the these specific verses do not tell us that "the word had a beginning".
    These specific verses do not imply this conclusion.
    I was not commenting on any other theology.

    Clear
     
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