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Joel Osteen, con artist

WHY do people fall for this nonsense? WHY aren't these people exposed on national TV, shut down, publicly humiliated? Why does no one defend the poor, low-income, insecure people who waste their precious time and money on this guy?

Out of sheer curiosity, I went to church one Sunday at Joel Osteen's mega-church in Houston. There were easily 7,000 people in the former basketball stadium, with gigantic plasma screen TVs, a fog machine, mood lighting, etc. I knew from the second I heard Joel Osteen on CNN a year ago that he was a con man, because a caller asked him and his bejeweled wife what percentage of the church's income they took home, and he wouldn't answer. But what surprised me was how obvious it is even inside the church. (Joel and his wife pictured below. See the enormity of the church here.)

080124_JoelOsteen_wide-horizontal.jpg


He just tells cute stories, and tells people what they want to hear. Then it's off to the massive bookstore inside the church. Send the kids to the separate, children's bookstore. Go to a different counter, where they are selling DVD's of today's sermon for $7.95.

There was even a brochure to do mission/charity work in Jamaica....if you wanted to "volunteer" you had to pay $1600. You could go to an all-expense paid resort in Jamaica for less! With group/church/non-taxable rates, they're probably making a profit, then taking credit for the charity work their poor, deluded "volunteers" are doing!

This is a symptom of the evangelical "non-denominational" mega church in America. No taxes. Your customers pay in cash (perhaps 10% of their income, if they are tithing). Book sales. DVD's. The band and the singers and the ushers are all probably volunteers. No democratic participation from the members. No financial oversight.

It all comes down to one thing: big, stinking profit for one guy, and all he has to do is spout nonsense for an hour a week. He actually inherited the church from his father.

It was the exact same story at the "Solid Rock" church in Dayton, which I also attended one Sunday with some friends, out of curiosity. :D This monstrous mega-church by the highway is known for its monstrous "touchdown Jesus", which is so distracting as you drive past its a wonder there aren't more car accidents there (shown below).

The son of the guy who founded Solid Rock gave the sermon, and my friends and I are pretty sure he was actually drunk! He said his parents were doing mission work in South Africa. Yeah, probably at some white-sanded resort.

Another pastor, a black guy with bright white teeth and a suit that looked like it was made in Italy, gave a mini-sermon in which he thanked the Lord for saving him, even though he lost his way years ago and went to jail for credit card fraud. After that, he said, he got saved, but lost his way and went to jail again. But the second time he got saved for real!

In other words, he found a racket that is actually legal in the U.S....the private, "non-denominational" evangelical racket.

Touchdown_jesus.jpg
 

JMorris

Democratic Socialist
religious nonsense is very profitable.always has been. and big white teeth, and immovable hair do seem requirements for having a mega church
 

Buttercup

Veteran Member
WHY do people fall for this nonsense? WHY aren't these people exposed on national TV, shut down, publicly humiliated? Why does no one defend the poor, low-income, insecure people who waste their precious time and money on this guy?
Because some people are simply just suckers for the sweet talk he delivers.

I predict at some point he'll have a sex scandal like so many before him. There's something about a mega church pastor's ego that temps them to chew on greener grass...only to get caught later.
 
Oh, this is just hilarious. According to Wiki, THIS sums up the criticisms against Joel Osteen:

Osteen has received much criticism from many in the Evangelical community. After a 2005 appearance on Larry King Live, he was accused of not clearly affirming that Jesus Christ is the only way a person can reach Heaven. He stated repeatedly that only God knows a person's heart, but that as a believer in the Christian faith he believes in an intimate relationship with Jesus Christ. [13] In late 2006, Osteen again appeared on Larry King Live and clarified his prior statement, saying he does in fact believe a personal relationship with Christ is the only way to Heaven.[13]


On the December 23, 2007 edition of Fox News Sunday, host Chris Wallace brought up criticisms of Osteen's lack of Scripture reference in his sermons, as well as his hesitancy to discuss sin as an integral part of life. Osteen responded: "And I am ultimately trying to do that, but I'm trying to teach people how to live their everyday lives, and so I do focus on it, probably not as much as some people would like."[18] His sermons and writings are sometimes reproached for their use of the concept of the prosperity gospel, a belief that wealth and power are rewards for pious Christians.[19]


Osteen has also received criticism for his lack of formal theological training. Osteen studied at Oral Roberts University for two years, but did not study theology or religion in college, and has never attended a theological seminary.[20]
Absolutely hilarious. Go ahead, extort, lie, waste, profit. Plaster your own face, with your big, toothy grin all over your $7.95 DVDs and your $25 books. Teach people that being rich is God's reward for being a good person. As long as you pay due respect to the proper theological dogmas. How many evangelical pastors, I wonder, are not morally outraged at Osteen, but merely jealous of his success?

It wouldn't surprise me if Mr. Osteen didn't believe a word of the Bible. He could even be an atheist. Or, he might believe his own lies....after all, to have such enormous power and influence over so many people, one might be tempted to believe one really DID have some Divine support, or truth. And if material riches come from God's favor, well, Joel must be second to Christ.
 
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ChristineES

Tiggerism
Premium Member
Honestly, I couldn't tell you. The only thing I can think of is that people want to hear only good things and not the truth. But sometimes a person has to be cruel to be kind- and it fact, being "cruel" can be the biggest kindness.
 

JMorris

Democratic Socialist
i have a hard time believing any of these mega church, rich rich preacher types believe what they preach. they are manipulators, and in order to manipulate people, you have to be smarter than them
 

kai

ragamuffin
some people are desperately seeking something, they hope this guy has the answer , he is not the first "flim flam man" and he wont be the last , but as horrible as it is you have to give to the americans they do it so well.
 
The sad thing is that all the "criticism" is that what he's doing doesn't have enough "religion" or enough "Christianity" in it. On 60 minutes they grilled him because he didn't talk about God, or mention Christ enough, or have enough crosses in his church.

Who cares?

What matters is people are throwing their hard-earned money away, hundreds of millions of dollars are not going to charity, they're going to Joel and his family so they can live the good life. The fact that he "waters down" Christianity is not a problem in itself; it's a symptom of the real problem, he's running a business, he doesn't want to scare away potential customers. And no taxes, it's pure profit.

I guess this criticism would be taboo, since it would also be a valid criticism of less "watered down" evangelical churches.
 

JMorris

Democratic Socialist
well he did have to carve out his own niche. he's got competition. and as far as the people throwing money at him. if wasnt him it'd be someone or something else. of course im not saying what he's doing is ok, just that these people need somebody to tell them what they want to hear, and they'll pay good money for it
 

cardero

Citizen Mod
I’m not sure what surprises me more Mr. Spinkles; that you actually attended some of these meetings (out of curiosity) or that you are just discovering the monetary correlation with organized religion.
 

Scott1

Well-Known Member
What matters is people are throwing their hard-earned money away, hundreds of millions of dollars are not going to charity, they're going to Joel and his family so they can live the good life. The fact that he "waters down" Christianity is not a problem in itself; it's a symptom of the real problem, he's running a business, he doesn't want to scare away potential customers. And no taxes, it's pure profit.
Do you think his "message" is considered by some of the thousands of his followers as a positive in their lives? I am sure that none of them would be suprised to find out the Osteens are millionaires, so I'm not sure what you are really upset about... is it the tax free part of the deal... or his hair? :D

I think this guy is like the "WWE" of faith... I'd feel better if he called it "Religious Entertainment" or motivational speaking... something like that. But I don't think even the most wacko Christian is "conned" by his act... but I sure wish I could have gone with you to that "church"... must have been a sight!

Hope you are well, my friend.
Scott
 

kai

ragamuffin
Yeah ! if i saw that place i would have to go in. do you reckon it was designed by the Dysney folk? do they have rides and all?

sorry! i cant help it
 

Deftide

New Member
I think in his mind what he is doing is right. He probably thinks that he is helping these people out and it is getting them through their everyday lives. More power to him if he can make money off people like this, it's their fault.

Heck what makes our gov't any better stealing our money?
 

kai

ragamuffin
I think in his mind what he is doing is right. He probably thinks that he is helping these people out and it is getting them through their everyday lives. More power to him if he can make money off people like this, it's their fault.

Heck what makes our gov't any better stealing our money?



but do you think it should it be tax free?
 

Enoch07

It's all a sick freaking joke.
Premium Member
Dunno if this guy is a fraud or not. But honestly I think they should start enforcing the death penalty on people who are guilty of this kind of fraud. If it was up to me people like Bernie Madoff/corrupt evangelicals who are found guilty of robbing people like they do should be put to death. To take peoples trust and use it to rob them, they deserve nothing less than the electric chair.
 

Beaudreaux

Well-Known Member
Dunno if this guy is a fraud or not. But honestly I think they should start enforcing the death penalty on people who are guilty of this kind of fraud. If it was up to me people like Bernie Madoff/corrupt evangelicals who are found guilty of robbing people like they do should be put to death. To take peoples trust and use it to rob them, they deserve nothing less than the electric chair.
Why should he be punished at all?? Has he done something illegal? His followers are people of faith who give their money to the church because the Bible tells them to do so. What has this guy done that is so bad?
 

Enoch07

It's all a sick freaking joke.
Premium Member
Why should he be punished at all?? Has he done something illegal? His followers are people of faith who give their money to the church because the Bible tells them to do so. What has this guy done that is so bad?

I have no clue if this Joel Osteen is guilty or not. Was just using this as an example to vent a bit.

Berny Madoff embezzeled $50 million from retirement funds of 1000's of people, and only gets a slap on the wrist. Peoples lives are ruined, because of this type of fraud by offering people a service and then abusing this trust to line their own pockets with cash. And imo the death penalty should be enforced because of the magnitude of the crime.
 
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