1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Jews call for the dismantling of the Zionist state of Israel

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Pink Top Hat, Mar 11, 2014.

  1. columbus

    columbus yawn <ignore> yawn

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2014
    Messages:
    25,163
    Ratings:
    +16,319
    Religion:
    None
    Around here too.
    I live near Indiana university in Bloomington Indiana. The Islamic center is full of nice people.

    But they are the Muslims who abandoned Islamist society and came to a secular corner of Jesus land. Atypical to say the least.

    Tom
     
  2. columbus

    columbus yawn <ignore> yawn

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2014
    Messages:
    25,163
    Ratings:
    +16,319
    Religion:
    None
    You said you are taking Israel's side. That makes you a Zionist. I take sides with people when they behave morally. That isn't always Israel, although I agree that in many ways they are more moral than the USA.

    I take sides with moral behavior, not political groups.

    Tom
     
  3. Saint Frankenstein

    Saint Frankenstein I'm not deaf, I'm just a real bad listener
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2012
    Messages:
    35,510
    Ratings:
    +20,951
    Religion:
    Christian (Eastern Orthodox leanings)
    You obviously don't know what Zionism is. Zionism is the movement that supports a Jewish state. I said that I'm not a Zionist. I'm not a part of that movement. It's not about Israel being Jewish, to me. They can even change the name if they want. They can remove all the Jewish cultural traits if they want. That's not the point. The point is that I have more support for Israel style of government and culture than I do for any other government or culture in that region. It is the only Western-style secular representative democracy in the Middle East. Women, LGBT people, religious minorities and other groups all enjoy protections and freedom there.

    As a member of the LGBT community and a member of other minorities, why in the world wouldn't I support that? Wouldn't it seem stupid for me to scream for the dismantlement of Israel and to turn it over to the Palestinians, who would probably just turn it into an other Islamic theocracy like the rest of the crapholes in the Middle East?

    Israel is easily more moral than any of its neighbors. Is personal freedom protected? Is it democratic? Is dissent allowed? These are the questions we must ask.
     
  4. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity ✔ a-OK RF member .99/lb
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2012
    Messages:
    34,314
    Ratings:
    +14,809
    Religion:
    liber-scripta grim Christian
    The state of Israel is secular, so some religious Jews don't want people to think its representative of Judaism. That's partly what the rally is about. There are Jews in it, but its founding was mostly secular. To quote from Ian S. Lustick "As Zionism developed in the early twentieth century, Orthodox Judaism's opposition remained strong. In 1911, Samson Raphael Hirsch, the founder of post-Enlightenment "neo-Orthodox" Judaism, warned that Jews must "attempt no action on their own initiative to restore their sovereignty, but must pursue their mission in Exile, awaiting the redemption solely through divine intervention." (For the Land and the Lord 1988 Lustick) The person who found a way for religious and non-religious Jews to work together for the new state was Rav Kook "The Elder". Essentially he was willing to tolerate secular Zionism, because he felt that secular Jews had something to contribute to the legitimate process of Redemption. His teachings were embraced by a radical group called Gush Emunim which took part in both politics and violence, but this group is no longer around.

    Of the Orthodox Jews in the state of Israel the Haredim (Charedim) are usually not active in politics. Those that are very interested in seeing an increase in settlements, etc. are called the Chardelim though within Chardelim there are those who accept decisions of Israel's government and those who do not. So now in modern Israel there are the Charedim who do not have a political agenda of expansion and the Chardelim who sometimes do.

    That being said, Israel is a country with a lot of great people in it. They can make up for most of the mistakes they've made by living well and being great people. There's enough room for them. There are rocket attacks and hostility surrounding it Israel, but I see no reason why the Israelis should have to leave. I think eventually (sometime soon) Israel will come to peaceful terms with its neighbours, and some people will like this and some won't. It will be based upon compromises that the Chardelim may not be perfectly happy about. The Charedim probably won't pay that much attention. When it happens many will seek to analyse the peace, prognosticate and verify. The TV evangelists over here will all be put to disgrace, and they'll insist that the peace can't be permanent. Eventually though they'll be proven wrong and hopefully disgraced some more. The orthodox Jews in NY who are protesting will say "I told you so" and we'll all move on.
     
  5. Flankerl

    Flankerl Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2010
    Messages:
    7,246
    Ratings:
    +3,668
    Religion:
    Judaism
    "If you had remained silent they would call you a philosopher."

    You want the US out of the ME. Okay. So why comment any further beyond this simple goal?
     
  6. Pink Top Hat

    Pink Top Hat Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2012
    Messages:
    538
    Ratings:
    +28
    if it wasn't for Putin on the security council using his veto then Obama;s (peace envoy :D McCain) and his jihadists would have full control of the Syria

    You would feel right at home in Israel with it's gay bars and strip joints. But Palestine is a Holy Land and the darling zionists telling the African Jews they are not white enough and the real Jews, Christians and Muslims being discriminated against and the long list of war crimes and UN resolutions being broken etc etc etc etc etc is a problem for the non gays who are not seeking Tel Aviv hot spots for some sexual 'fun in the sun'
     
  7. Pink Top Hat

    Pink Top Hat Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2012
    Messages:
    538
    Ratings:
    +28
    indeed
     
  8. Pink Top Hat

    Pink Top Hat Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2012
    Messages:
    538
    Ratings:
    +28

    oh dear!!! let's see how the hasbara respond to this :D
     
  9. Pink Top Hat

    Pink Top Hat Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2012
    Messages:
    538
    Ratings:
    +28

    kaza kaza kaza.............. hasbara :sleep: Prime Minister's Office recruiting students to wage online hasbara battles - National Israel News | Haaretz
     
  10. Pink Top Hat

    Pink Top Hat Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2012
    Messages:
    538
    Ratings:
    +28

    :D

    Is the Jewish state of Israel what you would call a secular democracy?

    What about the human rights of all the African Jews who they are beating and rounding up and putting in prison and burning their houses and childrens nurseries and businesses? or do you not get the news about this in your village?


    "I care about humanity and believe every person deserves to be free, secure in their person and body and able to decide their own destiny.
    "

    this is the funniest part :D

    he obviously has no access to the news
     
  11. Pink Top Hat

    Pink Top Hat Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2012
    Messages:
    538
    Ratings:
    +28
    Do you know who funds the US Islamic centres?
    Do you know who prints the literature for them?

    Egypt's Al Azhar the most famous Islamic seat of learning in the world and which for a long time has struggled with it's Sunni Sufi type of Islam against the Wahabi creed taught in the USA by Wahabi funding.

    Here is an example of the guys who fund and print the literature for the US mosques in action in Riyadh where they found someone playing a Satanic machine a few days ago;)

    [​IMG]
     
  12. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2013
    Messages:
    37,286
    Ratings:
    +18,364
    Religion:
    ecumenical & naturalistic Catholic
    Do you think it might have had something to do with the 30 missiles launched from the GS into Israel against civilian targets? And the implication is that you seemingly think Israel should just ignore the fact that it is being attacked, like I'm sure all other nations would, right? :rolleyes:
     
  13. Pink Top Hat

    Pink Top Hat Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2012
    Messages:
    538
    Ratings:
    +28
    I wish my country Egypt would stop now trying to mediate between the Israeli terrorists and the Palestinians.

    Egypt again has managed to get a ceasefire agreement and we all know that within 24 hours the Israelis will break it like every single time before.

    They will as they always do kill a few fishermen or farmers to inflame the situation and provoke another reaction just like they do historically.

    It's time for my country to stop being in the middle of a situation where no one now trusts an Israeli promise of a ceasefire.

    The UN has all the documented cases for decades of them all being broken by the Israeli side.

    Time for some other country to waste their time in mediation with the un trustable Israelis.

    I'm sick of it!
     
  14. Pink Top Hat

    Pink Top Hat Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2012
    Messages:
    538
    Ratings:
    +28

    do you think that those 30 missiles might be the result of the most recent killing of the unarmed Jordanian judge who tried to cross the crossing or the women who have been shot dead when they went into labour in a checkpoint and refused assistance to deliver, or the boys who threw a few stones and were shot dead, or the babies who die waiting at checkpoints for medical treatment or all the various other provocations by the Israeli occupiers or the long list compliled by Human Rights and Amnesty of the hundreds of ceasefire violations committed by the Israeli side since the last ceasefire agreement which the Gazans did the Human Rights groups said adhered to for months under constant provocation?

    they beg for reaction, they provoke with the intention to get a reaction, in the end desperation makes the Palestinians react by throwing a few fireworks which injur no one but are returned by missiles onto schools and homes of a country without an army or air force or navy to fight back for them.

    Damn the Israeli terrorists!!!
     
  15. Pink Top Hat

    Pink Top Hat Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2012
    Messages:
    538
    Ratings:
    +28
    who knows if the breaking point for the rockets being fired from the Palestinian side was this most recent assassination of the innocent Jordanian judge or the many other murders.................

    BUT of course as always the hasbara will claim to be the innocent victim in it all and blame of course the people for reaction to Israeli crimes that happen daily!

    [​IMG]
     
  16. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2013
    Messages:
    37,286
    Ratings:
    +18,364
    Religion:
    ecumenical & naturalistic Catholic
    Nice try at distorting the information to justify your obvious support for killing Israeli civilians. I would suggest to Hamas that if they want peace, don't lob missiles and mortars into Israel. Starting about 10 years ago and lasting roughly 4 years, Hamas and Hezbollah launched a total of roughly 14,000 missiles and mortars into Israel, overwhelmingly against civilian targets.

    No matter how you want to portray Israel and its people, it is totally hypocritical for you to condemn imaginary "terrorist" attacks by Israel but then justify what Hamas and Hezbollah have been doing. It's people like you that are causing the deaths of so many Arabs because they are so willing to support the attack on Israel, but then they whine when Israel responds. You simply cannot have it both ways, and it's totally disingenuous for you to try.

    BTW, did you actually read the news accounts about the Jordanian judge, or didn't the news information on that incident actually get to you? Whether the news accounts are reliable, that I don't know, and supposedly both Israel and Jordan are looking into this. Of course, it's quite obvious that you have already made up your mind.
     
  17. Godobeyer

    Godobeyer the word "Islam" means "submission" to God
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2010
    Messages:
    12,729
    Ratings:
    +3,393
    Religion:
    Islam
    I don't know about this issue , but if was true , i would condemned it .

    maybe you talking this ?
    Visit the Historical Great Synagogue of Oran - English blog | By Algeria Channel

    check this one in french , it's talking about Muslims saving synagogue :)

    Angleterre : une synagogue sauvée par des Musulmans - Le Monde Juif

    indeed the zionism is racist action, agianst the judiasm , that's why the 100 000 jews in NY protesting against it .


    don't you see the news , how the zionistes get enter to Al-aqsa mosque by force ?

    check this link
    https://www.google.dz/search?q=%D8%A7%D8%B3%D8%B1%D8%A7%D8%A6%D9%8A%D9%84%D9%8A%D9%88%D9%86+%D9%8A%D9%82%D8%AA%D8%AD%D9%85%D9%88%D9%86+%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%85%D8%B3%D8%AC%D8%AF+%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%A7%D9%82%D8%B5%D9%89&client=firefox-a&hs=EI8&rls=org.mozilla:fr:eek:fficial&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=gcAhU72CJKHNygO_s4DQAQ&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAQ&biw=1440&bih=730




    Why the muslims citizens of Israel could not visit "Willing Wall" or "Cry wall" by the protect of police , as the zionists do in Alqsa ?



    again i ask you :
    so why the jews protesting against the zionism in NY ?
     
  18. loverOfTruth

    loverOfTruth Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2012
    Messages:
    1,106
    Ratings:
    +42
    I can totally understand why these practicing Orthodox Jews would not want to join the Honorable - life loving and colorful - Israeli armed forces. Just watch the video ...

    [youtube]uz8_qzdDdM4[/youtube]
    Stone Cold Justice Four Corners - YouTube
    The Australian TV channel ABC showed this documentary.

    Peace.
     
    #118 loverOfTruth, Mar 13, 2014
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2014
  19. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2013
    Messages:
    37,286
    Ratings:
    +18,364
    Religion:
    ecumenical & naturalistic Catholic
    Check back earlier in this post whereas it was explained. Essentially, it is not a Palestinian-Israeli thing but a protest by the chasidim whereas they don't believe in being in the IDF until the Messiah arrives to authorize it. They also believe that the Israeli government should much more reflect their version of orthodox Judaism.
     
  20. loverOfTruth

    loverOfTruth Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2012
    Messages:
    1,106
    Ratings:
    +42
    That is not true. Here's from their own site :

    "We will fight every effort to drag our youth into the evil Zionist army."

    "True Torah Jews is once again putting efforts on many fronts to get the world’s attention turned to our protest against the Zionists."

    "True Torah Jews is launching a costly radio campaign as our part in this battle. Radio ads have brought us results in the past; they have proved to be one of the best ways of fulfilling the Satmar Rebbe’s directive to make known to the non-Jewish world that the Zionists are not the representatives of the Jewish people,"

    Taken from : Let Our Voices Be Heard! | True Torah Jews

    So their stance is clearly against Zionism and not only about putting their kids into Israeli military.

    Peace.
     
Loading...