Jews call for the dismantling of the Zionist state of Israel

[columbus]

FYI, the Muslims in my area are quite peaceful. Although they did lobby for
a crosswalk on a busy road near here. Death to inconvenient crosswalks!

Around here too.
I live near Indiana university in Bloomington Indiana. The Islamic center is full of nice people.

But they are the Muslims who abandoned Islamist society and came to a secular corner of Jesus land. Atypical to say the least.

Tom

 

[columbus]

I'm not a Zionist, and this isn't about theism. So your comments here don't make sense and are coming off as just being rude. I just believe in secular democracies who uphold individual liberties and not theocratic tyrannies which crush and enslave everyone so it makes sense that I would support Israel over Islamic states. I believe human rights should be universal. I care about humanity and believe every person deserves to be free, secure in their person and body and able to decide their own destiny. Those who transgress those rights of others should be punished. It's not about Israel being Jewish. Most Jewish people are secular, though. Only hardline Orthodox Jewish extremists wish to make Israel into a theocracy and most Israelis are against them.

You said you are taking Israel's side. That makes you a Zionist. I take sides with people when they behave morally. That isn't always Israel, although I agree that in many ways they are more moral than the USA.

I take sides with moral behavior, not political groups.

Tom

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

You said you are taking Israel's side. That makes you a Zionist. I take sides with people when they behave morally. That isn't always Israel, although I agree that in many ways they are more moral than the USA.

I take sides with moral behavior, not political groups.

Tom

You obviously don't know what Zionism is. Zionism is the movement that supports a Jewish state. I said that I'm not a Zionist. I'm not a part of that movement. It's not about Israel being Jewish, to me. They can even change the name if they want. They can remove all the Jewish cultural traits if they want. That's not the point. The point is that I have more support for Israel style of government and culture than I do for any other government or culture in that region. It is the only Western-style secular representative democracy in the Middle East. Women, LGBT people, religious minorities and other groups all enjoy protections and freedom there.

As a member of the LGBT community and a member of other minorities, why in the world wouldn't I support that? Wouldn't it seem stupid for me to scream for the dismantlement of Israel and to turn it over to the Palestinians, who would probably just turn it into an other Islamic theocracy like the rest of the crapholes in the Middle East?

Israel is easily more moral than any of its neighbors. Is personal freedom protected? Is it democratic? Is dissent allowed? These are the questions we must ask.

 

[Brickjectivity]

The state of Israel is secular, so some religious Jews don't want people to think its representative of Judaism. That's partly what the rally is about. There are Jews in it, but its founding was mostly secular. To quote from Ian S. Lustick "As Zionism developed in the early twentieth century, Orthodox Judaism's opposition remained strong. In 1911, Samson Raphael Hirsch, the founder of post-Enlightenment "neo-Orthodox" Judaism, warned that Jews must "attempt no action on their own initiative to restore their sovereignty, but must pursue their mission in Exile, awaiting the redemption solely through divine intervention." (For the Land and the Lord 1988 Lustick) The person who found a way for religious and non-religious Jews to work together for the new state was Rav Kook "The Elder". Essentially he was willing to tolerate secular Zionism, because he felt that secular Jews had something to contribute to the legitimate process of Redemption. His teachings were embraced by a radical group called Gush Emunim which took part in both politics and violence, but this group is no longer around.

Of the Orthodox Jews in the state of Israel the Haredim (Charedim) are usually not active in politics. Those that are very interested in seeing an increase in settlements, etc. are called the Chardelim though within Chardelim there are those who accept decisions of Israel's government and those who do not. So now in modern Israel there are the Charedim who do not have a political agenda of expansion and the Chardelim who sometimes do.

That being said, Israel is a country with a lot of great people in it. They can make up for most of the mistakes they've made by living well and being great people. There's enough room for them. There are rocket attacks and hostility surrounding it Israel, but I see no reason why the Israelis should have to leave. I think eventually (sometime soon) Israel will come to peaceful terms with its neighbours, and some people will like this and some won't. It will be based upon compromises that the Chardelim may not be perfectly happy about. The Charedim probably won't pay that much attention. When it happens many will seek to analyse the peace, prognosticate and verify. The TV evangelists over here will all be put to disgrace, and they'll insist that the peace can't be permanent. Eventually though they'll be proven wrong and hopefully disgraced some more. The orthodox Jews in NY who are protesting will say "I told you so" and we'll all move on.

 

[Flankerl]

This is the kind of nonresponse I'm getting used to in this thread.

I just want the US to get out of the ME.

Tom

"If you had remained silent they would call you a philosopher."

You want the US out of the ME. Okay. So why comment any further beyond this simple goal?

 

[Pink Top Hat]

And you think Putin is about peace?
I am not a fan of Obama and I think he's too beholden to the rich and powerful. At least he is trying to establish peace. Not that he will or anything.

Tom

if it wasn't for Putin on the security council using his veto then Obama;s (peace envoy McCain) and his jihadists would have full control of the Syria

To be honest, I used to be quite the anti-Zionist and even quite the Jew-hater. But my views have since changed. I see that Israel is the only country in the Middle East that is democratic and largely secular. It is the only country in the Middle East that I would feel safe in. Tel Aviv seems like quite the fun city and I would love to visit it as a member of the LGBT community. Jewish people have given so much to the world. I may not like their religion or the tribalism that comes out of it, but that is mostly the fault of the more hardline Orthodox sects which need to be opposed.

Now I have a lot of hatred towards the Islamic states and their human rights abuses. Women, LGBT people, religious minorities and the non-religious are treated quite horribly in all of those nations. Really, the only Arab countries where minorities were somewhat left alone were the ones like Libya and Syria. So I did not/do not support their overthrow. However, they had/have many issues such as their authoritarianism. But it was better than being uled over by bloodthirsty Jihadist fanatics. I think overthrowing the Taliban was the right thing to do, at least in the name of human rights. But I can't say I supported the invasion of Iraq.

If America wasn't a joke, we'd be overthrowing all these Islamic governments that abuse human rights and toss them out the window. Pakistan, the Gulf Oil states, unstable places in Africa where Jihadists are running wild etc. all deserve to be overthrown and have democracies installed in their place. We should be working to make the world a better place for women, LGBT people and minorities in general. If the US would get it's priorities straight, for the good of humanity, I would happily join the Armed Forces and fight against the extremists. I would put my money where my mouth is.

But we are hypocrites and lackeys of the Gulf Oil states. It's profiteering at its worst. Islamic extremism is a big threat to the world. Now we have them coming into the West and disrespecting our culture and way of life. The ones who do that, who are not willing to at least adhere to Western virtues of pluralism, democracy and personal liberty should be promptly thrown out! Send them back to their desert homelands! These extremist imams need to be deported ASAP. They shouldn't be allowed to come over here and spit in our face and get away with it. I believe in Western civilization. It's the only one that upholds the virtues of democracy and individual rights. I don't want that to go away. The world would be a much scarier place without it.

So I have to side with Israel now. The Arabs need to get their act together and stop blaming everyone else for their problems, especially the Jews. The OP here is spewing the same Jew-hating garbage that I've become accustomed to seeing on lunatic conspiracy sites like the David Icke forum, which is overrun with neo-Nazi types.

I'm angry.

You would feel right at home in Israel with it's gay bars and strip joints. But Palestine is a Holy Land and the darling zionists telling the African Jews they are not white enough and the real Jews, Christians and Muslims being discriminated against and the long list of war crimes and UN resolutions being broken etc etc etc etc etc is a problem for the non gays who are not seeking Tel Aviv hot spots for some sexual 'fun in the sun'

 

[Pink Top Hat]

I'm sure the Zionists are thrilled to know that they have the support of a theistic satanist.

Tom

indeed

 

[Pink Top Hat]

What in the hell does that have to do with anything? Oh, yeah - nothing. So stuff your snarky comments. There's already Satanists, Pagans, etc. in the military as it is.

oh dear!!! let's see how the hasbara respond to this

 

[Pink Top Hat]

So an muslim mob murdering non-zionist jews is just blah blah.

But iam all in favour of not securing Haredi neighbourhoods in case of a new Intifada or even war.





- dont shoot mortars into Israel
- no rocket attacks
- ???
- the Allahu Ackbar brigade gets to live another day




If we are a failed people, what are the arabs? Some kind of alpha pre release?




You people are the most naive ever. "He didnt wear nice suits so he had to be poor"




- stop attacking Israel
- dont be wiped out
- ???
- the Allahu Ackbar brigade gets to live another day




Ah of course. So why do they need all that refined nuclear material? Its not needed for nuclear fission to generate energy.

But i know, science is also a jewish thing. Dont trust it and stay in the middle ages.

Is that an Intel or AMD processor on your motherboard btw? The state of Israel says thank you.




Oh my.
There are about 1.700.000 people in the Gaza strip which is about 360km² big.

1700000 / 360 = 4722,2222...... people per km².

Thats not even in the Top 50 of the most densely populated cities on the planet.

List of cities proper by population density - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia




Imagine three retarded Islamic Jihad members firing mortars towards Israel, getting killed in the process which the Islamic Jihad uses as a pretense to fire over 40 rockets into Israel only to meet Israeli retaliation.

This line of events is even acknowledged by Islamic Jihad.

But its obviously Israels fault.




Syrian missiles. They were shipped to Iran and went on their journey to Sudan to reach Egypt and then Gaza.

But of course you dont believe any of it. But how come there are Fajr rockets in Gaza? How could Iranian rockets get there without Iranian involvement.

Crazy "the jews did it" incoming.





Tuesday three members of Islamic Jihad fired mortars into Israel which was observed by an Israeli drone.

These three members get killed by an airstrike.

Then Islamic Jihad ends the truce on its end and starts to fire over 40 rockets into Israel.

Israel retaliates.

But of course you can also believe the arab line of events: Jews are evil therefore they wanted to kill some arabs.





If you have no idea about whats happening in the area it might be best to save your comments.

kaza kaza kaza.............. hasbara :sleep: Prime Minister's Office recruiting students to wage online hasbara battles - National Israel News | Haaretz

 

[Pink Top Hat]

I'm not a Zionist, and this isn't about theism. So your comments here don't make sense and are coming off as just being rude. I just believe in secular democracies who uphold individual liberties and not theocratic tyrannies which crush and enslave everyone so it makes sense that I would support Israel over Islamic states. I believe human rights should be universal. I care about humanity and believe every person deserves to be free, secure in their person and body and able to decide their own destiny. Those who transgress those rights of others should be punished. It's not about Israel being Jewish. Most Jewish people are secular, though. Only hardline Orthodox Jewish extremists wish to make Israel into a theocracy and most Israelis are against them.

Is the Jewish state of Israel what you would call a secular democracy?

What about the human rights of all the African Jews who they are beating and rounding up and putting in prison and burning their houses and childrens nurseries and businesses? or do you not get the news about this in your village?


"I care about humanity and believe every person deserves to be free, secure in their person and body and able to decide their own destiny. "

this is the funniest part

he obviously has no access to the news

 

[Pink Top Hat]

Around here too.
I live near Indiana university in Bloomington Indiana. The Islamic center is full of nice people.

But they are the Muslims who abandoned Islamist society and came to a secular corner of Jesus land. Atypical to say the least.

Tom

Do you know who funds the US Islamic centres?
Do you know who prints the literature for them?

Egypt's Al Azhar the most famous Islamic seat of learning in the world and which for a long time has struggled with it's Sunni Sufi type of Islam against the Wahabi creed taught in the USA by Wahabi funding.

Here is an example of the guys who fund and print the literature for the US mosques in action in Riyadh where they found someone playing a Satanic machine a few days ago

 

[metis]

Missiles have been dropping on Gaza the most densly populated place in the world for a few hours non stop now

Gaza the size in sq kms of under 3 DisneyWorlds

Imagine that for a moment that you had Israeli fighter jets roaring over your heads and those Israeli bombs of peace and love dropping on your house tonight with no means at all to escape and the Israeli crying tomorrow of being the victims and the world doing nothing and the USA supporting it and aiding and funding it..............


shameful isn't it

Do you think it might have had something to do with the 30 missiles launched from the GS into Israel against civilian targets? And the implication is that you seemingly think Israel should just ignore the fact that it is being attacked, like I'm sure all other nations would, right?

 

[Pink Top Hat]

I wish my country Egypt would stop now trying to mediate between the Israeli terrorists and the Palestinians.

Egypt again has managed to get a ceasefire agreement and we all know that within 24 hours the Israelis will break it like every single time before.

They will as they always do kill a few fishermen or farmers to inflame the situation and provoke another reaction just like they do historically.

It's time for my country to stop being in the middle of a situation where no one now trusts an Israeli promise of a ceasefire.

The UN has all the documented cases for decades of them all being broken by the Israeli side.

Time for some other country to waste their time in mediation with the un trustable Israelis.

I'm sick of it!

 

[Pink Top Hat]

Do you think it might have had something to do with the 30 missiles launched from the GS into Israel against civilian targets? And the implication is that you seemingly think Israel should just ignore the fact that it is being attacked, like I'm sure all other nations would, right?

do you think that those 30 missiles might be the result of the most recent killing of the unarmed Jordanian judge who tried to cross the crossing or the women who have been shot dead when they went into labour in a checkpoint and refused assistance to deliver, or the boys who threw a few stones and were shot dead, or the babies who die waiting at checkpoints for medical treatment or all the various other provocations by the Israeli occupiers or the long list compliled by Human Rights and Amnesty of the hundreds of ceasefire violations committed by the Israeli side since the last ceasefire agreement which the Gazans did the Human Rights groups said adhered to for months under constant provocation?

they beg for reaction, they provoke with the intention to get a reaction, in the end desperation makes the Palestinians react by throwing a few fireworks which injur no one but are returned by missiles onto schools and homes of a country without an army or air force or navy to fight back for them.

Damn the Israeli terrorists!!!

 

[Pink Top Hat]

who knows if the breaking point for the rockets being fired from the Palestinian side was this most recent assassination of the innocent Jordanian judge or the many other murders.................

Israel stated on Tuesday that it regretted the killing of a Palestinian judge working in Jordan who was gunned down by Israeli soldiers at a border crossing on Monday. Mere hours earlier, the Israeli military had branded him a ‘terrorist’.


“Israel regrets the death of Judge Raed Zeiter yesterday at the King Hussein (Allenby) bridge and expresses its sympathies to the people and government of Jordan,” Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s office said in a statement released on Tuesday.

BUT of course as always the hasbara will claim to be the innocent victim in it all and blame of course the people for reaction to Israeli crimes that happen daily!

 

[metis]

do you think that those 30 missiles might be the result of the most recent killing of the unarmed Jordanian judge who tried to cross the crossing or the women who have been shot dead when they went into labour in a checkpoint and refused assistance to deliver, or the boys who threw a few stones and were shot dead, or the babies who die waiting at checkpoints for medical treatment or all the various other provocations by the Israeli occupiers or the long list compliled by Human Rights and Amnesty of the hundreds of ceasefire violations committed by the Israeli side since the last ceasefire agreement which the Gazans did the Human Rights groups said adhered to for months under constant provocation?

they beg for reaction, they provoke with the intention to get a reaction, in the end desperation makes the Palestinians react by throwing a few fireworks which injur no one but are returned by missiles onto schools and homes of a country without an army or air force or navy to fight back for them.

Damn the Israeli terrorists!!!

Nice try at distorting the information to justify your obvious support for killing Israeli civilians. I would suggest to Hamas that if they want peace, don't lob missiles and mortars into Israel. Starting about 10 years ago and lasting roughly 4 years, Hamas and Hezbollah launched a total of roughly 14,000 missiles and mortars into Israel, overwhelmingly against civilian targets.

No matter how you want to portray Israel and its people, it is totally hypocritical for you to condemn imaginary "terrorist" attacks by Israel but then justify what Hamas and Hezbollah have been doing. It's people like you that are causing the deaths of so many Arabs because they are so willing to support the attack on Israel, but then they whine when Israel responds. You simply cannot have it both ways, and it's totally disingenuous for you to try.

BTW, did you actually read the news accounts about the Jordanian judge, or didn't the news information on that incident actually get to you? Whether the news accounts are reliable, that I don't know, and supposedly both Israel and Jordan are looking into this. Of course, it's quite obvious that you have already made up your mind.

 

[Godobeyer]

Which is why the last synagogue got destroyed in Algeria in 1977?

I don't know about this issue , but if was true , i would condemned it .

maybe you talking this ?
Visit the Historical Great Synagogue of Oran - English blog | By Algeria Channel

check this one in french , it's talking about Muslims saving synagogue

Angleterre : une synagogue sauvée par des Musulmans - Le Monde Juif

Absolutely false.

indeed the zionism is racist action, agianst the judiasm , that's why the 100 000 jews in NY protesting against it .

False again, and I've been in the al-Aqsa mosque when there's been Muslems there and I saw no such "force" against them. Have you ever been there?

don't you see the news , how the zionistes get enter to Al-aqsa mosque by force ?

check this link
https://www.google.dz/search?q=%D8%A7%D8%B3%D8%B1%D8%A7%D8%A6%D9%8A%D9%84%D9%8A%D9%88%D9%86+%D9%8A%D9%82%D8%AA%D8%AD%D9%85%D9%88%D9%86+%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%85%D8%B3%D8%AC%D8%AF+%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%A7%D9%82%D8%B5%D9%89&client=firefox-a&hs=EI8&rls=org.mozilla:frfficial&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=gcAhU72CJKHNygO_s4DQAQ&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAQ&biw=1440&bih=730

What are you talking about?

Why the muslims citizens of Israel could not visit "Willing Wall" or "Cry wall" by the protect of police , as the zionists do in Alqsa ?

Again, false, and it begs the question who's been feeding you this utter nonsense? Maybe instead of posting out of nothing but sheer ignorance on this subject you actually might want to either visit there are study from non-radicalized sources.

again i ask you :
so why the jews protesting against the zionism in NY ?

 

[loverOfTruth]

There is more to it. I find it ridiculous to paint military dodgers as having some kind of relevance to allegiance to Muslims. In my opinion recruiting ultra orthodox to the army is going to make everyone's life in the army needlessly more complicated. In the past decade we saw a steady increase in Arab volunteers to the Israeli armed forces, we need to keep cultivating and investing in these reliable people instead of drafting ultra orthodox recruits who are going to have difficulties with confusion about gender roles, enforce dietary laws of an irrational kind, and basically kill the moral spirit of what is after all the people's army, a force which is made up of life loving young men and women of all colors and creeds.

I can totally understand why these practicing Orthodox Jews would not want to join the Honorable - life loving and colorful - Israeli armed forces. Just watch the video ...

[youtube]uz8_qzdDdM4[/youtube]
Stone Cold Justice Four Corners - YouTube
The Australian TV channel ABC showed this documentary.

Peace.

 

[metis]

again i ask you :
so why the jews protesting against the zionism in NY ?

Check back earlier in this post whereas it was explained. Essentially, it is not a Palestinian-Israeli thing but a protest by the chasidim whereas they don't believe in being in the IDF until the Messiah arrives to authorize it. They also believe that the Israeli government should much more reflect their version of orthodox Judaism.

 

[loverOfTruth]

Check back earlier in this post whereas it was explained. Essentially, it is not a Palestinian-Israeli thing but a protest by the chasidim whereas they don't believe in being in the IDF until the Messiah arrives to authorize it. They also believe that the Israeli government should much more reflect their version of orthodox Judaism.

That is not true. Here's from their own site :

"We will fight every effort to drag our youth into the evil Zionist army."

"True Torah Jews is once again putting efforts on many fronts to get the world’s attention turned to our protest against the Zionists."

"True Torah Jews is launching a costly radio campaign as our part in this battle. Radio ads have brought us results in the past; they have proved to be one of the best ways of fulfilling the Satmar Rebbe’s directive to make known to the non-Jewish world that the Zionists are not the representatives of the Jewish people,"

Taken from : Let Our Voices Be Heard! | True Torah Jews

So their stance is clearly against Zionism and not only about putting their kids into Israeli military.

Peace.