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Jews call for the dismantling of the Zionist state of Israel

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Pink Top Hat, Mar 11, 2014.

  1. Pink Top Hat

    Pink Top Hat Active Member

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    "The zionists created all these problem with the arabs, and now they want to drag us to fight their wars for them"

    "Judaism and Zionism cannot co exist"

    10's of 1000's of Jews who follow the bible rally in Manhattan New York and call for mass protests today Tuesday across the world to denounce Zionism and the illegal creation of the Jewish State of Israel.

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    https://twitter.com/TraditionalJews

    At very short notice huge crowds of Jews who follow their bible protested the illegal creation of the state of Israel which they say is against the Jewish religion.

    How much longer will the USA support the Zionists who contradict Jewish Law and Judaism, now that the issue is getting too big to ignore on MSM?.

    Are all these Jews now going to be called anti semites because they are against the creation of Israel?
     
  2. Breathe

    Breathe Hostis humani generis

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    The issue is too complex for that.

    Let's suppose for a moment that the Jewish state of Israel were to be dismantled.

    Now what?
    Does it become Palestine? Annexed by Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, Egypt?

    What happens to the 8 million people who live there?

    What happens to the Israeli Arabs -- Muslims, Jewish, and otherwise?
    What happens to the Christians? The Druze? Samaritans?

    Are some of them kicked out, but not others? How is it decided? Are none of them kicked out?

    If none, then what? Is it just the name? If Israel becomes "the land of Palestine", then what?
    It's still majority Jewish. They will still be the most influential people there, unless they were removed.

    And removing around 5 or 6 million people isn't a good start to any nation's history. It would be boycotted very quickly. And who'd take in the Jewish people? Would they have to be split up?
    What would stop pogroms?

    (A lot of those pictures on Twitter are demonstrations against making the Ultra-Orthodox serve in the IDF, anyway.)

    There's no easy way out. Regardless of one's opinion on Israel, the fact is that Israel is here to stay, now, and co-operation must be had to ensure peace and progression.
     
  3. SkylarHunter

    SkylarHunter Active Member

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    Independently of them being right or wrong, it's been too long to simply dismantle the state. Like Breathe said, it's a lot more complicated then that.
    I do find it curious that this rally would take place in Manhattan and not in Israel though.
     
  4. Flankerl

    Flankerl Well-Known Member

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    Oh its you! Members who only ramble about one topic are rather weird.


    Also this
     
  5. Caladan

    Caladan Agnostic Pantheist

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    These so called Jews are free to move and join their brethren in Brooklyn, let the Americans have them. Or if they really stand behind their convictions, let them move to the Palestinian Authority.
     
  6. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    You have incorrectly portrayed what was going on in those pictures as the issue is not whether Israel should have been carved out of Palestine but whether the state of Israel should mandate service in the IDF for chasidic Jews, along with the latter's belief that Israel should not be a Jewish country until all of the Biblical boundaries are controlled by Israel. It really has nothing to do with the Israel-Palestinian conflict.
     
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  7. Caladan

    Caladan Agnostic Pantheist

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    There is more to it. I find it ridiculous to paint military dodgers as having some kind of relevance to allegiance to Muslims. In my opinion recruiting ultra orthodox to the army is going to make everyone's life in the army needlessly more complicated. In the past decade we saw a steady increase in Arab volunteers to the Israeli armed forces, we need to keep cultivating and investing in these reliable people instead of drafting ultra orthodox recruits who are going to have difficulties with confusion about gender roles, enforce dietary laws of an irrational kind, and basically kill the moral spirit of what is after all the people's army, a force which is made up of life loving young men and women of all colors and creeds.
     
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  8. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    Absolutely agree.
     
  9. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
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    Excellent.
     
  10. GoodbyeDave

    GoodbyeDave Well-Known Member

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    The Ultra-orthodox position, as I understand it, is either that the creation of Israel as a Jewish state is pre-empting the work of the Messiah, or that a Jewish state is inherently racist.
    Home | True Torah Jews
    Neturei Karta - Orthodox Jews United Against Zionism

    Those of us who are not Jews have a difficulty in seeing the difference between a state where Jews have superior status and one where Muslims have it (Saudi Arabia), or between one where the child of a Jewish mother is privileged and one where the child of a white mother is.
     
  11. Flankerl

    Flankerl Well-Known Member

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    Their position is that they dont want to work and continue to live on state benefits.


    Thats it.
     
  12. Caladan

    Caladan Agnostic Pantheist

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    Jews in Israel have no state of 'superiority' that can compete with how 'whites' in the UK have, or in France, or in the US. If you can't see the difference between Saudi Arabia and Israel than living on your island has really gone ultra isolated from the world and current affairs.
    In fact it is obvious that Jews have no such status of superiority as the traditional white classes in the UK, as Jews in Israel are a melange of ethnicities who have produced a state for all this diversity. Something neither the UK nor any western nation that I know of has accomplished. Your culture lives in a social apartheid de facto. Not in theory. You are a nation of big brother de facto and not in theory.
     
  13. Assad91

    Assad91 Shi'ah Ali

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    :biglaugh: that's funny. I'd say it goes further than white privileged in the US. I mean, none of us whites, outside maybe kkk and neo nazi, actually care to fight for a white government. Unlike Israelis who want to keep the Jewish character of the government.
     
  14. Caladan

    Caladan Agnostic Pantheist

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    You're kidding, right? :eek:
     
  15. columbus

    columbus yawn <ignore> yawn

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    As a USonian I don't feel qualified to judge the Zionists or the Palestinians.

    I just don't want my country (or tax dollars) getting involved. They have made a bed I don't want to lie in.

    Honestly, I fully expect WWIII to start soon. And I expect it to start there. Abrahamic religionists will decide that God wants them to destroy humanity for the glory of god.
    It isn't any one variety of Abrahamic religionists.

    Tom
     
  16. Caladan

    Caladan Agnostic Pantheist

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    And here is another epic display of intellect. Your nation has decades of involvement and deployment of troops in the region (and probably every other part of the world), you don't get to ride the high horse. Your country has rained more terror and war than a small state in the Eastern Mediterranean could. Your war with the Arabs has been much more destructive than Israel's military history in the region.
     
    #16 Caladan, Mar 11, 2014
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2014
  17. Pink Top Hat

    Pink Top Hat Active Member

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    The illegal state was built on a lie. Most zionists are athiests. Athiests don't have a Holy Land to return to since they don't believe in God.

    All Palestinians whose land and homes were stolen by these Europeans should be allowed to return, it is their human right according to the UN. When they return they will outnumber the Zionist Europeans many times and then the Muslims, Arabs, Christians and Jews who actually practice Judaism can all live like they did before the Europeans terrorised the nation of Palestine and the British who controlled it at the time who were also the victims of Israeli terrorist attacks.

    The thief NEVER becomes the rightful owner of the stolen property he stole. It's something the Jews and believers in God understand but not something the athiest zionists understand.
     
  18. Pink Top Hat

    Pink Top Hat Active Member

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    It's true the USA is the biggest terrorist nation in the world.

    Raving lunatics in the government like Bush and Kerry and all the rest of the retards who are actively trying to bring about 'The Rapture'

    That 'small state in the Eastern Mediterranean' is the next biggest terrorist nation. Not only is it the ONLY one in the region with NUCLEAR weapons who threatens destruction every week to it's neighbours BUT it also controls these mindless nut cases in the US congress and makes huge shekels by weapons manufacturing and sales provoking war after war after war hoping the Americans are stupid enough to carry on believing their lies.

    Their paid hasbara all over the internet are employed in every forum and chat room to disseminate the lies to the clueless day after day.

    These Jews who are demonstrating in New York are the real Jews. The ones who follow their faith unlike the athiest zionist criminal terrorists who have stolen a peoples land and caused nothing but war and destruction and death ever since.

    If it not were for the support of the morons in the USA governments it would have been gone long ago.

    If Balfour were to suggest today what he suggested would be a good idea back then, the world would order an immediate psychological assessment on him knowing how that kind of moronic stupidity would end up. There is no one that is sane would ever think that stealing a peoples land and homes then murdering them when they try to resist and get it back would ever end peacefully.

    It's only the continuous lying hasbara that makes the morons believe their lies.

    Once the Americans finally wake up and smell the coffee and see that Israel is a major cause of world conflict and death and money wasted and was built on a lie we might all eventually find some peace in our world.

    It starts by not being fooled by the clever manipulation of the paid hasbara who infest the internet and forums and everywhere else with their lies and deceit and their false manipulation of them being the innocent victims.

    Americans should be, if they are Christians, support these actual Jews who follow their bible and say that the creation of the illegal state of Israel is actually against their religion. That's the bottom line and clear enough for any sane person to understand whose mind has not been brainwashed by their hasbara.
     
  19. Terrywoodenpic

    Terrywoodenpic Oldest Heretic

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    I have read this thread and I still do not understand the situation.
    I would suggest few others, including those involved do either.
    and I include in that, the many lemmings that are always attracted to join these sort of protests.

    What is it really about?
    who gains?
    who loses?
    Is it politics?
    Religion?
    Or self interest?
    How can there be an outcome?
     
  20. Pastek

    Pastek Sunni muslim

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    In the photo it says "read the Talmud". But what says the Talmud exactly and why some jews believe it and some don't.

    Maybe we need to know the texts to understand them and those who are against them tell us why.

    Some zionists are christians. Also the zionist in Palestine (West Bank) seems to be religious, so :shrug:
     
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