jewish

[Colt]

You disagree that laws are for reasons and not to be ignored? Or maybe you disagree with the concept of rebuke?

Do you still practice ALL of the Laws of Judaism?

 

[Ehav4Ever]

dont know much aboit their faith. do they reject jesus completely or do they see him as gods son but reject him anyway?

This thread may also help.

There is no Judaism vs. Christianity - There is Judaism and there is Christianity

 

[PruePhillip]

There have been a few Messiah claimants who were Jewish. But the requirements for someone to be a candidate, much less the real deal, are very high. The three criteria I remember are:

1. ushers in an era of world peace
2. rebuilds the temple
3. gathers all Jewish people wherever they are to Jerusalem and leads them in a Jewish theocracy

Until there's world peace, it's easy to reject any messiah claimant.

Zechariah tells us in Chapter 9 and 12 if I recall, that the Jews will see their kingly Messiah come, but they despair when they realize it is the SAME MAN who rode the colt, the same man they once pierced.

 

[rosends]

Do you still practice ALL of the Laws of Judaism?

We actually can't keep all the laws nowadays.

Here is a discussion of the ones we can keep
Sefer HaMitzvot HaKatzar, Introduction 12

 

[Colt]

We actually can't keep all the laws nowadays.

Here is a discussion of the ones we can keep
Sefer HaMitzvot HaKatzar, Introduction 12

I was curious but kind of knew the answer. Judaism naturally evolved away from the laws that were mostly man made to begin with.

 

[rosends]

I was curious but kind of knew the answer. Judaism naturally evolved away from the laws that were mostly man made to begin with.

I guess that's a matter of opinion. In my understanding and practice, Judaism has not done that.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Do you still practice ALL of the Laws of Judaism?

Those that are possible and which apply to me. For example, I cannot follow the sacrificial laws since it is unlawful to offer up sacrifice anywhere but the temple -- and there is no temple right now. But I do as Hosea says to do "The words of our lips (prayers) shall be as bullocks (sacrifices)" I also do not keep commandments that apply only to men, or only to priests.

 

[dybmh]

Do you still practice ALL of the Laws of Judaism?

no, but I learn about them. So, they aren't ignored. I'm not into correcting people though, if I see a transgression.

 

[dybmh]

Zechariah tells us in Chapter 9 and 12 if I recall, that the Jews will see their kingly Messiah come, but they despair when they realize it is the SAME MAN who rode the colt, the same man they once pierced.

Well, that's one way to read it. Here's another approach:

Analysis of Zechariah 12:10

 

[PruePhillip]

Well, that's one way to read it. Here's another approach:

Analysis of Zechariah 12:10

I am fairly well convinced of what I read, in any interpretation. This man who rode upon the colt, the one pierced, HAS RETURNED and now reigns over the nations. It's not David, or Josiah, or Moses or any Rabbi - it is the one who rode upon the colt and died for his people - with the promise of his return.

 

[dybmh]

I am fairly well convinced of what I read, in any interpretation. This man who rode upon the colt, the one pierced, HAS RETURNED and now reigns over the nations. It's not David, or Josiah, or Moses or any Rabbi - it is the one who rode upon the colt and died for his people - with the promise of his return.

For the prophecy to be fulfilled, the Jewish people remain as non-believers into the future when Jesus returns. Otherwise they wouldn't mourn, they would be rejoicing. Therefore, everything is the way it's supposed to be.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

I am fairly well convinced of what I read, in any interpretation. This man who rode upon the colt, the one pierced, HAS RETURNED and now reigns over the nations. It's not David, or Josiah, or Moses or any Rabbi - it is the one who rode upon the colt and died for his people - with the promise of his return.

Although the verse about the colt is messianic, the one about being pierced through is not. To start with, here is a better translation (the Stone Tanakh). God is clearly saying that we will look to him because of someone or someones who are pierced through.

Zechariah 12:10
And I will pour out upon the house of David and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and supplications. And they shall look to me because of those who have been thrust through [with swords], and they shall mourn over it as one mourns over an only son and shall be in bitterness, therefore, as one is embittered over a firstborn son.

This occurance has not yet happened. No one being pierced through has yet brought on such great mourning or returned teh People of Israel to obedience.

Here is a very in depth analysis of Zechariah 12:

 

[PruePhillip]

Although the verse about the colt is messianic, the one about being pierced through is not. To start with, here is a better translation (the Stone Tanakh). God is clearly saying that we will look to him because of someone or someones who are pierced through.

Zechariah 12:10
And I will pour out upon the house of David and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and supplications. And they shall look to me because of those who have been thrust through [with swords], and they shall mourn over it as one mourns over an only son and shall be in bitterness, therefore, as one is embittered over a firstborn son.

This occurance has not yet happened. No one being pierced through has yet brought on such great mourning or returned teh People of Israel to obedience.

Here is a very in depth analysis of Zechariah 12:

Yes, any verse which portends the Messiah must be challenged by 'academics.'
There's a lot at stake - who has the authority now days, the bible or academia?

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Yes, any verse which portends the Messiah must be challenged by 'academics.'
There's a lot at stake - who has the authority now days, the bible or academia?

You cannot understand the bible without scholarship. It must be interpreted, and you can't look to just any tom dick or harry to get the right interpretation. We are dependent upon our scholars.

 

[1213]

the point is: Jesus was attempting to change Judaism....

Please tell how and why do you think so?

 

[pearl]

I am fairly well convinced of what I read, in any interpretation. This man who rode upon the colt, the one pierced, HAS RETURNED and now reigns over the nations. It's not David, or Josiah, or Moses or any Rabbi - it is the one who rode upon the colt and died for his people - with the promise of his return.

Scripture is not so forth coming to be understood on one's own. The only way to conclude that Jesus was the pierced one of Zechariah 12:10 is to acknowledge the high 'christology' of John's Gospel.

They look on him…thrust through: another possible rendering is “they shall look to me concerning him…thrust through.” In either case, the victim is an enigmatic figure, perhaps referring to a Davidic descendant, a priestly leader, or even a true prophet. Some historical event, unknown to us from any surviving source, may underlie this reference. The Gospel of John applies this text to the piercing of Christ’s side after his death.
The mourning for the pierced victim in Jerusalem is compared to the annual ritual mourning in the plain of Megiddo over the death of the Phoenician fertility god, Hadadrimmon. According to others, Hadadrimmon is the name of a place near Megiddo, and the reference would then be to the mourning over the death of King Josiah at the hands of Pharaoh Neco in 609 B.C. i'm sure there are objections to this interpretation as well.

 

[Colt]

Scripture is not so forth coming to be understood on one's own. The only way to conclude that Jesus was the pierced one of Zechariah 12:10 is to acknowledge the high 'christology' of John's Gospel.

They look on him…thrust through: another possible rendering is “they shall look to me concerning him…thrust through.” In either case, the victim is an enigmatic figure, perhaps referring to a Davidic descendant, a priestly leader, or even a true prophet. Some historical event, unknown to us from any surviving source, may underlie this reference. The Gospel of John applies this text to the piercing of Christ’s side after his death.
The mourning for the pierced victim in Jerusalem is compared to the annual ritual mourning in the plain of Megiddo over the death of the Phoenician fertility god, Hadadrimmon. According to others, Hadadrimmon is the name of a place near Megiddo, and the reference would then be to the mourning over the death of King Josiah at the hands of Pharaoh Neco in 609 B.C. i'm sure there are objections to this interpretation as well.

The apostles' and other early followers of Jesus were Jews. Naturally, leaving their former religion they sought to demonstrate a "seamless theological transition" from Judaism to the religion of Jesus. In doing so they forced Jesus into OT scriptures where he was not actually there. The authority of the Son of God and is inherent in his being. Let Judaism have its religion and lets stop warping their scriptures to try to justify faith in Jesus. In terms of spiritual teachings Jesus did choose from the cream of Hebrew scriptures but there is much that he left. With Jesus we were supposed to become like unspoiled children and begin anew.

 

[dybmh]

Please tell how and why do you think so?

I gave a few examples earlier in the thread. But in general it was a change in priorities. Judaism as taught by Moses was focused on following the law, avoiding idolatry, to have a good life. ( please see the blessings and curses in Deut 28 for support of this ). Jesus shifted the priority to believing in him for the purpose of obtaining eternal life. The promise of eternal life for believing in the Jewish messiah was a completely new concept.

 

[muhammad_isa]

The apostles' and other early followers of Jesus were Jews. Naturally, leaving their former religion they sought to demonstrate a "seamless theological transition" from Judaism to the religion of Jesus..

No .. that's not it.
Jesus came to reform .. it wouldn't have been necessary to reform, if it weren't for sectarian divide and misbelief.

Jesus did not go to the temple, telling people to "leave Judaism".
He told the Sanhedrin where they were wrong, and natuarlly, they didn't like it.
The disciples didn't stop praying to G-d .. on the contrary, their faith was strengthened by "the King of the Jews" in their midst.

 

[dybmh]

The disciples didn't stop praying to G-d

are you sure about that? who did they pray to?

Matthew 14:33 Then those who were in the boat worshiped Him, saying, "Truly You are the Son of God!"