Jewish views on Lilith & appropriation

[YoursTrue]

There are a couple of things here -- the first is the biblical commandment against divining and speaking to the dead. This is part of kishuf or "witchcraft" though that is a fairly technical term not related to the modern notion of Wicca or even of "double double boil and trouble".

The question of lilit is discussed in this article.

I find the comment interesting that someone made that Satan is a Jewish concept.

 

[rosends]

I find the comment interesting that someone made that Satan is a Jewish concept.

The soton, the prosecuting angel who tempts us to sin is a Jewish concept.

 

[Harel13]

Thanks for reminding me so then the question remains as to whether or if lilith was is a real character as to Adam's first wife.

To my knowledge, the idea only ever appears in the Alphabet of Ben Sira, a disreputable collection of midrashim which is considered by many to really have been some sort of satire against real midrashim. If it appears anywhere else, well, I'd be happy to be enlightened.

I see. Once again, interesting, to say the least. How do you feel about the following: "Lilith.. is first mentioned in Biblical Hebrew in Isaiah 34:14, and later in Late Antiquity in Mandaean Gnosticism mythology and Jewish mythology sources from 500 CE onwards." Would you agree with that?

Depends. What was written before that? (Note that I myself lack authority in Jewish tradition, so I'm not sure where you're going with this)

 

[YoursTrue]

To my knowledge, the idea only ever appears in the Alphabet of Ben Sira, a disreputable collection of midrashim which is considered by many to really have been some sort of satire against real midrashim. If it appears anywhere else, well, I'd be happy to be enlightened.

Depends. What was written before that? (Note that I myself lack authority in Jewish tradition, so I'm not sure where you're going with this)

Well, I'm wondering, since you seem to say what Jewish historians had to say about this, seeming that some are more accurate(?) than others? Since Lilith was mentioned (and I used to read the magazine with the title Lilith Jewish women's magazine, I learned a few things about the story associated with her,...), I am wondering about the traditional view. But again, thank you for expressing your viewpoint. Because from what I'm seeing now, any historical record of the supposed first wife of Adam, who it is said did not want to be in subjection to him, was not delineated until way after Moses. But!!! maybe I'm wrong. Now I see something about her being relegated to the region of the Red Sea, waiting to kill children. Would you say that is a traditionally accepted view by respected historians?

 

[YoursTrue]

To my knowledge, the idea only ever appears in the Alphabet of Ben Sira, a disreputable collection of midrashim which is considered by many to really have been some sort of satire against real midrashim. If it appears anywhere else, well, I'd be happy to be enlightened.

Depends. What was written before that? (Note that I myself lack authority in Jewish tradition, so I'm not sure where you're going with this)

Since you asserted something about Jewish historians earlier, as if you knew the authoritative viewpoint, I figured you must know who's respected

To my knowledge, the idea only ever appears in the Alphabet of Ben Sira, a disreputable collection of midrashim which is considered by many to really have been some sort of satire against real midrashim. If it appears anywhere else, well, I'd be happy to be enlightened.

Depends. What was written before that? (Note that I myself lack authority in Jewish tradition, so I'm not sure where you're going with this)

That Lilith is not a real account of Adam's first wife. Unless you have knowledge that she is. You seem to indicate it was a rather fanciful interpretation. At least that's my impression. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe you really do believe a woman named Lilith was Adam's first wife, still alive waiting to kill babies.

 

[Clara Tea]

The old testament records mistakes of ancient Jews. Bigots use the mistakes of Jews to bolster their rant against Jews.

Yeshayah 34.14: Lilit (night creature or screech owl) dwells there [Edom] and finds a mano'ach (resting place).

Lilith - Wikipedia

Link says: Lilith is first mentioned in Isaiah 34.15. She was also mentioned in Mandaean Gnosticism.

The Babylonian Talmud says that Lilith was Adam's first wife.

Lilith tempts sex and steals babies (so, if you want to buy a used baby).

Lilith was also the wife of Frasier Crane.

 

[rosends]

The Babylonian Talmud says that Lilith was Adam's first wife.

Where?

 

[Harel13]

Since you asserted something about Jewish historians earlier, as if you knew the authoritative viewpoint, I figured you must know who's respected

I already stated the traditional viewpoint about Lilith in my reply to the OP. There's not much more to be said.
I'll paraphrase something I wrote recently on another thread: That someone is Jewish does not make what they write inherently Jewish or authoritative to Jews.

That Lilith is not a real account of Adam's first wife. Unless you have knowledge that she is. You seem to indicate it was a rather fanciful interpretation. At least that's my impression. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe you really do believe a woman named Lilith was Adam's first wife, still alive waiting to kill babies.

There's a midrashic concept of a "first Eve", but the person who tied it to Lilith probably did not base that on any older tradition and only did it to mock the sages. Who knows, may have been a Karaite.

 

[YoursTrue]

I already stated the traditional viewpoint about Lilith in my reply to the OP. There's not much more to be said.
I'll paraphrase something I wrote recently on another thread: That someone is Jewish does not make what they write inherently Jewish or authoritative to Jews.

There's a midrashic concept of a "first Eve", but the person who tied it to Lilith probably did not base that on any older tradition and only did it to mock the sages. Who knows, may have been a Karaite.

To be honest, it all adds up and into my views about this. So thanks.

 

[YoursTrue]

The old testament records mistakes of ancient Jews. Bigots use the mistakes of Jews to bolster their rant against Jews.

Yeshayah 34.14: Lilit (night creature or screech owl) dwells there [Edom] and finds a mano'ach (resting place).

Lilith - Wikipedia

Link says: Lilith is first mentioned in Isaiah 34.15. She was also mentioned in Mandaean Gnosticism.

The Babylonian Talmud says that Lilith was Adam's first wife.

Lilith tempts sex and steals babies (so, if you want to buy a used baby).

Lilith was also the wife of Frasier Crane.

I would listen sometimes to that series, but didn't quite connect the name with the innuendo. I really didn't know much about the person lilith until some time after I read the magazine entitled Lilith.

 

[YoursTrue]

I already stated the traditional viewpoint about Lilith in my reply to the OP. There's not much more to be said.
I'll paraphrase something I wrote recently on another thread: That someone is Jewish does not make what they write inherently Jewish or authoritative to Jews.

There's a midrashic concept of a "first Eve", but the person who tied it to Lilith probably did not base that on any older tradition and only did it to mock the sages. Who knows, may have been a Karaite.

The concept seems to have taken hold in many respects. If I recall correctly, isn't there something about a ribbon or string attached to the crib of a newborn by some parents to ward off any action taken by "Lilith"? I believe there is, I just looked it up. Chavarah- Jewish Community Learning: Red Ribbon on the Baby's Crib

 

[Harel13]

The concept seems to have taken hold in many respects. If I recall correctly, isn't there something about a ribbon or string attached to the crib of a newborn by some parents to ward off any action taken by "Lilith"? I believe there is, I just looked it up. Chavarah- Jewish Community Learning: Red Ribbon on the Baby's Crib

I'm not aware of such a custom. Is this the red string nonsense stuff?